Volo's is merely 1 step away, from the Core 3 Books.  It's pretty much the MM2, for 5E. 

Strixhaven wasn't really a core rule book expansion.  It was just cotton candy, for the care bear crowd.

Volo's was definitely meant to bolt straight on, to the Core 3 Books.  Volo's was a good seller.  It received great interest, when it was first released.  The fan base responded very well, to it.  There was no crescendo of criticism, among the customer base.  But now, they can't wait to tear it down. 

WOTC deserves to have a Tanarukk ride a Neothelid through their offices.

Quote from: Horace on December 15, 2021, 06:21:37 PM

Quote from: 1989 on December 15, 2021, 05:48:06 PM
This suddenly makes me think of D&D moving into a Fortnite vibe or WoW vibe -- very kiddy and colourful with nothing offensive.

It reminds me of when WoW started catering to the casual gaming market, alienating its most dedicated fans (hardcore raiders). Subscription numbers fell off a cliff and never recovered. May WotC experience the same decline.

I don't know what their numbers are like currently, but Classic WoW reportedly doubled their subcriptions after launch.

https://www.pcgamer.com/world-of-warcrafts-subscriber-base-has-more-than-doubled-since-the-launch-of-classic/

I hope someone is working on a non-wussified Clone, of D&D 5E.

It would be great for the Clone's exposure, if it could roll out at the same time as D&D Woke; and go head to head with it, like the original Pathfinder once did.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 15, 2021, 08:00:54 PM

Quote from: Horace on December 15, 2021, 06:21:37 PM

Quote from: 1989 on December 15, 2021, 05:48:06 PM
This suddenly makes me think of D&D moving into a Fortnite vibe or WoW vibe -- very kiddy and colourful with nothing offensive.

It reminds me of when WoW started catering to the casual gaming market, alienating its most dedicated fans (hardcore raiders). Subscription numbers fell off a cliff and never recovered. May WotC experience the same decline.

I don't know what their numbers are like currently, but Classic WoW reportedly doubled their subcriptions after launch.

https://www.pcgamer.com/world-of-warcrafts-subscriber-base-has-more-than-doubled-since-the-launch-of-classic/

WoW gets a subscription bump every time there's a major new content release. Classic was probably the biggest bump the game has had since the decline started, which just goes to show how badly Blizzard screwed up by alienating their core audience. Their biggest subscription bump came after they reverted the modern-WoW changes (for select servers, anyway).

Also, you know WoW's numbers are still in the toilet because they're still not reporting raw numbers like they used to (they only say that subscriptions have "doubled," not what they doubled to). When they were breaking records every few months, Blizzard released raw subscription numbers all the time.

Quote from: Jaeger on December 15, 2021, 06:19:14 PM
Except that by WotC's own survey's the overwhelming majority of the 5e player base are college age.

Marketing to kids = marketing to the wrong buying demo for 5e.

Doing so will come back to bit them.

Unless of course their college age audience has the emotional maturity of children...

Go to a toy store. They all have starter box sets, pre-painted minis, and even a few books. Visit the official D&D site and look around. It's cartooney and looks like fucking Disney. And yes, you're right, college-aged people are still pretty much kids. Hasbro is aiming for a cradle to grave product line. They don't care about lore. They care about having customers for life.

Quote from: Jaeger on December 15, 2021, 06:19:14 PM

AD&D2e changes were done to do an end-run around the 1980's Karen's.

5e changes are being done for pure ideological reasons by current year Karen's...

Spin it however you like. It was capitulation then and it's capitulation now. The fact is that in both cases a vocal minority took to the media and a company changed its product. It's obviously more egregious in the current case, but unless someone here has a seat on the board of WotC or Hasbro we don't know the real reasons. Are they pandering to wokeism or are they the high priests of it?

Quote from: Jaeger on December 15, 2021, 06:19:14 PM

The satanic panic was nothing compared to current Cancel Culture.

The RPG industry was not self-cannibalizing, and nobody lost their job due to the satanic panic Karen's screeching.

Woke Cancel Culture literally wants to personally destroy your reputation, and keep you from earning a living making RPG's.

And they have proven their ability to do both.

Jobs? People went to prison because of the Satanic Panic. It was much bigger than the D&D just like wokeism is much bigger than RPGs.

Quote from: Dapig on December 15, 2021, 07:00:01 AM
At first I was laughing when I read this.  Then the reality sunk in.

If having evil beholders is somehow verboten...we really are left with "help grandma find the missing ingredient to her magical cookies."

I think we can safely write off Dark Sun.  Or at least anything that actually resembles Dark Sun.

Quote from: Almost_Useless on December 15, 2021, 09:17:44 PM

Quote from: Dapig on December 15, 2021, 07:00:01 AM
At first I was laughing when I read this.  Then the reality sunk in.

If having evil beholders is somehow verboten...we really are left with "help grandma find the missing ingredient to her magical cookies."

I think we can safely write off Dark Sun.  Or at least anything that actually resembles Dark Sun.

Good.  There's no good that would have come from this with WotC's current crop of writers.

Quote from: 1989 on December 15, 2021, 05:48:06 PM
This suddenly makes me think of D&D moving into a Fortnite vibe or WoW vibe -- very kiddy and colourful with nothing offensive.

They've already moved into Legos.  $$$$

Quote from: Almost_Useless on December 15, 2021, 09:17:44 PM
I think we can safely write off Dark Sun.  Or at least anything that actually resembles Dark Sun.

They lore will probably edge closer and closer to something like Blue Rose.

Quote from: Almost_Useless on December 15, 2021, 09:17:44 PM

Quote from: Dapig on December 15, 2021, 07:00:01 AM
At first I was laughing when I read this.  Then the reality sunk in.

If having evil beholders is somehow verboten...we really are left with "help grandma find the missing ingredient to her magical cookies."

I think we can safely write off Dark Sun.  Or at least anything that actually resembles Dark Sun.

At this point, it would be Dark Sun with Cookies!!!

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 15, 2021, 08:41:05 PM
Jobs? People went to prison because of the Satanic Panic. It was much bigger than the D&D just like wokeism is much bigger than RPGs.

Citation needed.

It seems that D&D has started to be sanitized of all lore. And is being rewritten by lawyers.

I've seen this happen to other games. But to have it happen with D&D is just depressing.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on December 16, 2021, 08:01:43 AM

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 15, 2021, 08:41:05 PM
Jobs? People went to prison because of the Satanic Panic. It was much bigger than the D&D just like wokeism is much bigger than RPGs.

Citation needed.

I'd think this is likely the recovered (false) memory of Satanic child abuse fad of the 80s-90s. Therapists would try to convince people they'd been abused, often by Satanic cults.

Quote from: S'mon on December 16, 2021, 08:39:12 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on December 16, 2021, 08:01:43 AM

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 15, 2021, 08:41:05 PM
Jobs? People went to prison because of the Satanic Panic. It was much bigger than the D&D just like wokeism is much bigger than RPGs.

Citation needed.

I'd think this is likely the recovered (false) memory of Satanic child abuse fad of the 80s-90s. Therapists would try to convince people they'd been abused, often by Satanic cults.

Ahhh. That IS true. I wasn't even thinking about the false-memory craze.

Yeah, the accusations of ritual abuse and the anti-D&D stuff were part of the same mass hysteria, heavy metal music, too. Wokeism is similar in my view. One big difference is social media, though.