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Author Topic: Worst Old School Art?  (Read 21598 times)

fearsomepirate
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Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #195 on: July 20, 2017, 03:49:31 PM »
Quote from: DavetheLost;976884
In addition to being able to come up with a good dynamic pose, and that can be directed by the artist in a pinch, the ability to actually hold a pose is vital for a good model. It is harder than you might think to hold even a simple pose. Try holding a pose for twenty minutes without moving at all, then take a five minute break and resume the pose exactly as you were before. Repeat for several hours...

Boy, sounds like it's a lot easier to just grab the nearest back-to-school catalog from Sears and change the backpacks into swords.
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Baulderstone

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Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #196 on: July 20, 2017, 04:02:57 PM »
Quote from: DavetheLost;976884
In addition to being able to come up with a good dynamic pose, and that can be directed by the artist in a pinch, the ability to actually hold a pose is vital for a good model. It is harder than you might think to hold even a simple pose. Try holding a pose for twenty minutes without moving at all, then take a five minute break and resume the pose exactly as you were before. Repeat for several hours...

It's pretty gruelling. One of the models I work with is particularly good at always just falling back into the same pose without any coaching. I complimented her on it once. She said with a rueful grin, "It's easy! I just move until I find the place where my muscles ache the most, and that is the pose I have been holding."

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« Reply #197 on: July 20, 2017, 06:43:52 PM »
Quote from: fearsomepirate;976921
Boy, sounds like it's a lot easier to just grab the nearest back-to-school catalog from Sears and change the backpacks into swords.

:p ;)

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Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #198 on: July 22, 2017, 02:00:46 AM »
Quote from: fearsomepirate;976859
Cut corners by hiring cheap models.

If the two dudes were paid anything at all, TSR got ripped off.
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Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #199 on: July 22, 2017, 06:13:38 AM »
Quote from: Willie the Duck;976858
Guy on right could be just about any age over ~25 and isn't clearly fat. He'd be absolutely invisible if the rest of the picture wasn't T&A plus chubbo on the left. Guy on left is definitely odd. Making them that fat (but not like comically obese) had to have been a deliberate choice. So possibly slipping their friend/coworker into the art.

I wonder if there was a trend with the artists in the 90s. Something like, "you know, in real medieval times, not every warrior was muscle-bound Conan types. Nor were they all 18-25. We'd actually be 'more realistic' if there were some 40 y.o. weekend warriors in the mix." Basically I'm wondering if there's at least a good explanation.

Well there's US/Mexico Fat and then there's Rest of World Fat..

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« Reply #200 on: July 24, 2017, 04:03:21 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;977249
If the two dudes were paid anything at all, TSR got ripped off.

You mean if the artist was paid...the models modeled and deserve whatever they got, free sandwiches I assume.

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« Reply #201 on: July 27, 2017, 01:56:09 AM »
Quote from: S'mon;977277
Well there's US/Mexico Fat and then there's Rest of World Fat..


There's also that a "USA in the 1990s" fatass is a "USA in 2017" 'slim'.
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Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #202 on: July 27, 2017, 12:00:56 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;978608
There's also that a "USA in the 1990s" fatass is a "USA in 2017" 'slim'.

Ha ha, too true. I was observing the other day to my wife how when I was in high school there was "the fat kid" and everyone else was pretty well within norms. Now the kid within norms is the outlier.

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Re: Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #203 on: October 03, 2023, 05:25:38 AM »
This thread deserves to be resurrected.

I have the contrarian opinion that Dungeons & Dragons has never had good art direction. There are a few products that have acceptable, sometimes even superb art. Those are by far the exception.

The first TSR product to ever have good art direction was Ravenloft.



Dragonlance almost had good art direction. That first calendar looks like a cohesive product line, with a few outstanding illustrations. The graphic design and colors work, but overall it is still not particularly great.



As bad as OD&D, Basic, and 1st edition is, it really goes downhill with 2nd edition and never recovered, 3rd edition was a real nadir. 2e was one of the worst conceived product lines ever made, from a graphic design and art point of view. There are a few exceptions in the 2e era with some of the settings.

DarkSun is possibly the most cohesive art direction of any D&D product line. There are moments that Brom almost elevates the line to the sublime. In large part thanks to the work of Den Beauvais who did the preliminaries that Brom worked into finishes.



What would I consider to be great art direction? In fantasy it is hard to find, but I would say Peter Jackson's LotR is first rate. Heavy Metal magazine occasionally featured great fantasy work. Pan's Labyrinth was remarkable. Warhammer has been phenomenal at times. Of course the works of Frank Frazetta and early Boris Vallejo were next level. Dinotopia by James Gurney is good art direction. Trudvang Chronicles is also a real gold standard. Just look at Paul Bonner's work, this is what D&D should look like:

« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 05:28:12 AM by Thor's Nads »
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Re: Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #204 on: October 03, 2023, 05:37:18 AM »
I could have mentioned some fantasy video games that have genuinely good art direction.

Diablo 3, Assassin's Creed: Valhalla, Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Final Fantasy, and a few others. Come to think of it, video games probably have some of the best overall art direction of any fantasy product lines.

It may seem I'm being overly harsh on D&D, but if we are to be objective and remove nostalgia and just compare it to top rate entertainment products even the best of D&D art falls far short of what it could be.
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Re: Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #205 on: October 03, 2023, 07:58:38 AM »
You are entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong.
Plus when it comes to art, it's purely a subjective matter.
What one man considers art, another may considered garbage.
Otherwise you come off as sounding pretentious.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 08:00:21 AM by blackstone »

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Re: Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #206 on: October 03, 2023, 09:27:20 AM »
I have the contrarian opinion that Dungeons & Dragons has never had good art direction.

Compared to what, though? From what I remember from that era, most RPG products didn't have any type of high end graphic design. They were usually just plain text pages with the occasional illustration thrown in. The only thing you could really judge them by was the consistency and quality of their illustrations.

Don't entirely disagree with your assessment, but placed in context D&D's art direction was really no worse back then than most RPG's from that era.

Eric Diaz

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Re: Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #207 on: October 03, 2023, 09:59:58 AM »
Here is something more controversial: as far as art direction goes, 5e might be my favorite.

The layouts are beautiful and the books are cohesive.

The art is not always good (too digital, too gray), but it blends perfectly into the pages.

It is cleaner than 3e and less boring than 4e.

Well, maybe I'm just not a Wayne Reynolds fan.

Agree on Dark Sun - it is coherent and good looking.

Old school art is hit and miss. Some superb pieces, some horrible books like the 2e reprint, the 1e DMG has almost no art, etc.

Also agree that we should be comparing to other existing RPGs at the time...
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 10:05:54 AM by Eric Diaz »
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Re: Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #208 on: October 03, 2023, 10:23:19 AM »
You are entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong.
Plus when it comes to art, it's purely a subjective matter.
What one man considers art, another may considered garbage.
Otherwise you come off as sounding pretentious.

Nah, there are objective merits to judge art by. People just don't know how to put their personal preferences aside to judge art on its merits and what it's trying to portray rather than on whether they personally like it or not. And confuse the fact that there is an element of subjectivity involved with thinking that it therefore is entirely subjective.

I can say, for example, that DiTerlizzi style is not my favorite and more rough looking that I prefer without dismissing it out of hand, or ignoring what its evocative feel brought to Planescape in shaping its distinctive look.

Here is something more controversial: as far as art direction goes, 5e might be my favorite.

The layouts are beautiful and the books are cohesive.

The art is not always good (too digital, too gray), but it blends perfectly into the pages.

It is cleaner than 3e and less boring than 4e.

Well, maybe I'm just not a Wayne Reynolds fan.

Agree on Dark Sun - it is coherent and good looking.

Old school art is hit and miss. Some superb pieces, some horrible books like the 2e reprint, the 1e DMG has almost no art, etc.

Also agree that we should be comparing to other existing RPGs at the time...

I 100% agree with this controversial opinion. 5e has hands down the best layout style and overall art direction in D&D history. All of the art is just kinda bland, but it has by far the best layout--elegant and readable, without getting in the way or clunking up the page with 50 tons of visual weight the way that 3e's layout did.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 10:25:50 AM by VisionStorm »

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Re: Worst Old School Art?
« Reply #209 on: October 03, 2023, 04:34:48 PM »
I enjoy all of the classic era TSR art to some degree. Perhaps not the most popular opinion but I think Erol Otus has some of the best and coolest art done for D&D. A close second would be Jim Holloway. I am not a huge fan of the vast majority of digitally produced art. It doesn't have the same feel as a hand drawn or painted piece. It lacks warmth.

3E art was not terribly inspiring but not super awful
4E art was blah. The monster manual was the every monster will have boobs version. I still can't unsee that bugbear and hill giant.
5E art while technically good isn't great to me.

Jeff Easley had some terrific pieces but there was a period where he went overboard on ochre. Must have had a huge sale on on it or something but so many of his color pieces for a while had way too much of that.

Keith Parkinson and Clyde Caldwell both had amazing realistic looking figures. I really liked everything they did.

Larry Elmore had a wicked cool semi-cartoonish style. I would have loved to see him do a full color animated series.
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