Quote from: Barghest;972442What do you guys think? Bad art, or adequate?

Both this piece and the picture of the bard solidly convey the sense of some illustration from an old children's adventure book. If you were doing an Ivanhoe RPG, these would be perfect. They just don't work as core class illustrations for AD&D 2E. That isn't they feel that edition was going for at all.

My verdict: Good art. Bad art direction.

Quote from: Ronin;972477Next time I run a D&D adventure. Evey sword the players find will now have craftsman stamped on it. If it should break and they take it back. There will be a huge run around/bureaucracy/denial of replacement. I envision a frustrated group, and a Sears on fire.

The final indignity is when they finally get a refund from Sears, but it is only available as credit on their Discover cards.

Quote from: Barghest;972075

That image to me never cried adventuring Bard imo. It was not helped that when they used examples to explain some of the Bard abilites they used Cwell The Fine as a name. Already the art is not that great. Attaching terrible names to it does not help.

Quote from: Baulderstone;972511Both this piece and the picture of the bard solidly convey the sense of some illustration from an old children's adventure book. If you were doing an Ivanhoe RPG, these would be perfect. They just don't work as core class illustrations for AD&D 2E. That isn't they feel that edition was going for at all.

My verdict: Good art. Bad art direction.

Agreed and seconded. The problem was and it's a theory of mine is that they went with that style of art simply to not offend the MADD (mothers against Dungeons and Dragons) and similar types. I kind of agree to a certain extent. The art in the first run of the 2E was better it was also more bloody and violent. Hardly something that was going to sit well with some parents.

Quote from: Baulderstone;972511My verdict: Good art. Bad art direction.

Yep.

Quote from: Dumarest;971458But I thought 2nd edition AD&D was not considered old school?

Properly speaking, it's not. It's the end of Old School and the beginning of the post old-school era. I assume it's being talked about here in comparison to the older art.

Quote from: Voros;971495I'll repeat myself from another thread:


This factionalism over minor variations in rules is reminiscent of the various splinter denominations of the Protestant Reformation. Except extra silly. Is descending AC the new Trinity?

THAC0 or DEATH!*

*Actually I am not an OSR supporter. I am a fan of a good deal of the art from that era however.

Quote from: RPGPundit;972905Properly speaking, it's not. It's the end of Old School and the beginning of the post old-school era. I assume it's being talked about here in comparison to the older art.

Should I stop putting up scans from this book because it's off-topic?

Because there are a few more on which I'd like to see opinions.

Quote from: Barghest;972075GM: "So here is what a Bard looks like in this game--"

Player: "NO. No, that is not what my Bard is going to look like. Just NO."

I'm thinking "Errol Flynn in fabulous striped leggings" is a look that never really caught on among Bard players, you know?

Oh, my bard was absolutely a foppishly dressed dandy. The leggings are maybe a tad much, and mismatched boots would have been a pain to walk in, but this bard otherwise is a near-perfect representation of the bard I played for Rise of Tiamat.

Quote from: Barghest;973255Should I stop putting up scans from this book because it's off-topic?

Because there are a few more on which I'd like to see opinions.

Nah keep going.

Quote from: Barghest;973255Should I stop putting up scans from this book because it's off-topic?

Because there are a few more on which I'd like to see opinions.

No, like I said I think it's valid to post here particularly to bring up in a comparative nature of 2e vs. 1e/old-school art that immediately preceded it.  I think the change in art style was reflective in the change in the hobby (and not for the better).

Alright, then, let's continue. Here's another one that I have mixed feelings about.



It's a full-page painting by Carol Heyer. Back when I first got the book, I thought it was a pretty neat picture, mostly because it was a full-page painting.

Now? Well, those are some scrubby-looking adventurers. The curiously androgynous Wizard has just saved the lives of his/her companions, the Douchebag Thief/Ranger/Whatever (complete with mid-life crisis ponytail and dad's-trying-to-look-cool earring) and That Dwarven Cleric We Found Passed Out In Our Garbage, by casting exactly the right spell for the occasion. Little do they know that they are about to be surprise-attacked/swallowed whole by a giant catfish looming up from the benthic shadows.

On the one hand, you probably wouldn't want to play as one of these guys. And looking at this picture, I feel like I now know waaaay too much about the inside of that giant catfish's mouth, and it looks waay too much like a puckered butthole. Carol Heyer probably could have gotten away with some more tastefully-obscuring shadows inside that thing's maw, and I don't think anyone would have minded, or even noticed.

On the other hand, there's something kinda delightfully old-school about this whole image. Hey, there are giant catfish in the 2E Revised Monstrous Manual, so it's not like it couldn't happen. Sometimes adventurers get swallowed by giant catfish--not because the giant catfish is the Sinister Villain of the Campaign and it was an Epic Finale, but just because it's a dangerous world out there where there are dangerous giant animals, and you should be careful. New player who is building his first character, take heed.

So--an ugly but well-done picture about something ugly happening to a party of ugly people, that still makes a good point about the nature of the setting. Probably not a poster you'd want to put up on the wall of your gaming room, though.

Quote from: Barghest;974292Now? Well, those are some scrubby-looking adventurers. The curiously androgynous Wizard has just saved the lives of his/her companions, the Douchebag Thief/Ranger/Whatever (complete with mid-life crisis ponytail and dad's-trying-to-look-cool earring) and That Dwarven Cleric We Found Passed Out In Our Garbage

2e AD&D art definitely took "You can be the hero!" a step too far. All those portly middle-aged 'adventurers' who look suspiciously like 1990s suburban Americans... When it wasn't Clyde Caldwell's girlfriend.

Quote from: Barghest;970039I liked it well enough; I could never think of a reason that people in Sigil wouldn't dress that way, after all. It fits the Jaded Dungeoneer approach well enough.

...up to the point that wondering how the hell Hennet kept track of all those buckles took me right out of the fantasy mindset I was aiming for, and dumped me into "No, wait, how the fuck is that supposed to work anyway?"

haha, yes...this is also an issue I have with Liefeld's stuff.  I often find myself driven to distraction by all the straps, buckles, pouches, and layers of overlapping swords and knives strapped to backs and forearms and thighs.  And the way those straps bind characters in what looks to me like incredibly uncomfortable ways.  There's a bizarre obsessive quality there that I sort of find I can't look away from, lol.  Something similar applies to this classic video!  

[video=youtube;Gcj34XixuYg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcj34XixuYg[/youtube]

Quote from: Barghest;974292Carol Heyer probably could have gotten away with some more tastefully-obscuring shadows inside that thing's maw, and I don't think anyone would have minded, or even noticed.

I don't know about that. It's the attention to detail on the inside of the mouth that causes the viewer to dwell so much on the idea of being swallowed by the thing. It is ugly and kind of gross, but I think it works. I agree completely that it isn't something you want hanging on your wall, but I like a touch of horror in my D&D.

Quote from: S'mon;9743092e AD&D art definitely took "You can be the hero!" a step too far. All those portly middle-aged 'adventurers' who look suspiciously like 1990s suburban Americans... When it wasn't Clyde Caldwell's girlfriend.

God bless Clyde Caldwell.

Quote from: S'mon;9743092e AD&D art definitely took "You can be the hero!" a step too far. All those portly middle-aged 'adventurers' who look suspiciously like 1990s suburban Americans... When it wasn't Clyde Caldwell's girlfriend.

The weird thing is that back then, most gamers weren't middle-aged, yet.