So we have established that both Kender and Ducks are at the top of the list. Let's focus on others now (if they exist)...

I played a Malkavian with "delusions of grandeur."  He was one of the most fun characters I've ever played.  My co-player thought it was hilarious.  My ST hated it.  My character had to be "tricked" by the other player to follow the story.  I thought the story was too rigid (you have to be at the bar at exactly 7:13 PM or you have ended the story--not exactly, but you get the idea) & a straight jacket.  But, it was great fun for the players.  *shrugs*  I was mad at the ST at the time, if you're wondering.  He always played some kind of gun-toting nightmare in my games--I kind of thought he deserved it in turn, though I did NOT set out to do that when I made the character.

Quote from: brettmbSo we have established that both Kender and Ducks are at the top of the list. Let's focus on others now (if they exist)...

What we've established is that some people have their taste planted firmly in their mouths.

Can we we focus on how shitty humans are treated in most fantasy RPGs?

!i!

Gnome Titans.

Grunge Elves.

...

Actually, those are very cool.

So, ducks and Gully Dwarves.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityGnome Titans.

Grunge Elves.

...

Actually, those are very cool.

I agree. HackMaster came up with a few cool things unique to the game. I'm kinda partial to pack apes, too.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonIt surprises me to think there are that many fans of them out there that they would end up influencing halfings even more than they did in 3e.

I'm not a fan of the Kenders but there are key elements of them that make them far more suitable than the classic lazy, pipe-smoking, cowardly, barefoot, homesick Gygaxian Hobbit-rip-off for the default adventuring milieu of Dungeons & Dragons.

I think it does the D&D Halfling some good to get a more nomadic lifestyle and a more adventurous disposition.

Plus, I've always thought that the Halfling-Hobbit as described (and illustrated) in older D&D/AD&D was a self-defeating creation. A smaller, stocky human has never struck anybody I know as particularly graceful or "roguish", yet that's what the Halfling are supposedly good at.

And the modern Halfling doesn't entirely builds on the Kender. Making it an even smaller, slender creature is kind of cool. At last, their size can be a real advantage and make them... erm... "stand out".

Of course, one can hope they won't go into the really annoying traits of the Kender (the over the top kleptomania was possibly one of the worse ideas for a roleplaying game, much worse than anything conceived for Gygaxian hobbits) but I look really forward to a nomadic race of slender rogues, complete with mercantile inclinations and all.

It really makes a whole lot more sense as a core race for an adventuring game of high fantasy and is not surprising at all. Just good design, IMO.

Quote from: Consonant DudeIt really makes a whole lot more sense as a core race for an adventuring game of high fantasy and is not surprising at all. Just good design, IMO.

I see what you're saying, but one of the things Tolkien seemed to make clear is that hobbits tended to toughen up and get adventurous once they were forced to leave the Shire. Plus, the Shire was babysat by the Rangers so long that it became a boring place. Simply imagine a halfling/hobbit realm where they actually had to rely upon themselves for protection, and you'll have more active, adventure-prone hobbits like Merry, Pippin, Sam, and Frodo.

A lot of the bad rap hobbits take is because Tolkien had a habit of focusing attention away from some of the more interesting things in Middle-earth. Take the Shire's Green Hill Country, for example, where the Thane of the Shire - Pippin's dad - was pretty decisively active when Saruman and his crew took over. He closed the borders of his land and drove off any invaders, and was quick to send a force to help drive Sharkey's men from Hobbiton.

The whole notion of hobbits/halflings making good rogues stems from how stealthy they were according to Tolkien in both the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. There are instances in the books where it's clear they could, indeed, make good "burglars" if so inclined, as they have a knack for silently moving about and staying out of sight.

I guess my point is that they already make good adventurers if the main assumption about their being coddled by an outside force is taken away. They don't have to be made into kleptomaniacal, obnoxious fools to make them interesting. But, I realize that what Tolkien focused upon the most is what's remembered. Plus, it's easy enough to dispense with the fluff and create my own.

Well, fuck me sideways... I've just read, like, 1 minute ago, some more race information on ENWorld. It's currently on the front page:

...Here are additional details from the Races and Classes book (I'm holding it as I type this). All these tidbits are from the first half (Races) of the book.

Ability damage is gone.

Dragonborn scales are bronze or golden in color.

Elves are now as tall (or taller) than humans, though still very slender and graceful.

Halflings are described as having the tendency to "acquire" things due to intense curiosity (much as the Dragonlance kender do). They are now a bit taller than before, about 4 feet on average, weighing about 65 pounds.

Azers and galeb-dur are mentioned as once-dwarves who became completely enslaved by their ancient giant masters.

Tieflings are not human and demonic offspring, but are the true-breeding descendants of an ancient empire that made dark and terrible pacts with the Nine Hells. Their fiendish visage is actually a manifestation of a curse, due to their progenitors' crimes. They're more closely tried to devils than demons.
Known gods include Bahamut, Corellon (god of magic), Io ("the ancient diety," now dead and split into Bahamut and Tiamat), Lolth, Moradin, Obad-Hai (god of the wilderness), Sehanine (goddess of the moon), Tiamat, and Zehir (god of night).

These changes to the Halfling I don't like. I'll still wait for the official book and some context but my first thoughts are, this is bad design. And not in a subjective "I prefer the other way" POV.

Making them taller and kleptomaniac would be just fucking dumb.

Read that at RPG Net.  Good fucking God, had they forgotten about the Kender problem already?  *facepalms*  Also, a lot of these race changes are reminiscent--intentional or not--of what's been done with World of Warcraft and its elves and dwarves.

Quote from: Consonant DudeHalflings are described as having the tendency to "acquire" things due to intense curiosity (much as the Dragonlance kender do). They are now a bit taller than before, about 4 feet on average, weighing about 65 pounds.

So they're skinny dwarves now.  Let me guess -- it has something to do with players complaining about the shitty size mods on halflings' weapon choices.  You know, not everything needs to be "balanced" to be fun.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaCan we we focus on how shitty humans are treated in most fantasy RPGs?

That sounds like a great topic for a thread of its own.

Squats- Dwarves INNNNN SPAAAAACE!

Draeni - Hard to pronounce demon gargoyle paladins FROOOOM SPAAAACE!


Malkavians 2nd edition ruined them...completely forever.

Malks 3rd tried to save them....but the damage had been done.

Nobody ever want to play a V:TM MalkOvian, because their what the Malkavians were supposed to be like, but that wasn't any fun

Quote from: Consonant DudeDragonborn scales are bronze or golden in color.

Tieflings are not human and demonic offspring, but are the true-breeding descendants of an ancient empire that made dark and terrible pacts with the Nine Hells. Their fiendish visage is actually a manifestation of a curse, due to their progenitors' crimes. They're more closely tried to devils than demons.
Known gods include Bahamut, Corellon (god of magic), Io ("the ancient diety," now dead and split into Bahamut and Tiamat), Lolth, Moradin, Obad-Hai (god of the wilderness), Sehanine (goddess of the moon), Tiamat, and Zehir (god of night).[/B]

OK, I forgot some races I don't like.  Dragonborn and tieflings.  Do they really add anything other than min/max potential?  Maybe it's just my antiquated views of an adventuring party, or maybe it's just that the games I tend to run are humanocentric, but I can't see these fitting in as a player race in any of my campaign worlds.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaCan we we focus on how shitty humans are treated in most fantasy RPGs?

I'm game.  Conan is the only RPG I've seen that does this well enough for me without getting strange to the point of ridiculous, but it might be because I'm so familiar with the source material.  

But just to be clear, you are talking about how human cultures are generally treated--not a race or culture made up of shitty humans, right?  You never know when you're talking about fantasy games. . .  

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerAlso, a lot of these race changes are reminiscent--intentional or not--of what's been done with World of Warcraft and its elves and dwarves.

I don't play any MMORPGs, but damned if I haven't had the urge to play a Night Elf Mohawk lately.

Pete

Not sure if they count or not, being in Rifts, but I hate Floopers from World Book 1: Vampire Kingdoms.

Quote from: pspahnOK, I forgot some races I don't like.  Dragonborn and tieflings.  Do they really add anything other than min/max potential?  Maybe it's just my antiquated views of an adventuring party, or maybe it's just that the games I tend to run are humanocentric, but I can't see these fitting in as a player race in any of my campaign worlds.

I tend to run homanocentric campaigns (and as a player, I play mostly humans). However, I've wanted a new "tough" race to replace half-orcs for a long time. I could never find a suitable replacement that I liked. I can't say I adore Dragonborn but I might try it.

I'm not too familiar with the old Tieflings so I can't comment much on the new version, other than to say it appears to be an attempt by the designer to embrace the high fantasy nature of D&D.