So do you have multiple races simply for their exotic qualities or do they fill a roll in settings? Some times I get the feeling their are there just because that's how it's always been done.

I once read an idea that I liked: take all the classic, cliché races from Fantasy and make them all human. Give them similar traits and cultures. Suddenly you're free to play around with the usual tropes and perhaps come up with some original material.

I think that it was Zak S. Or James Raggi. Can't remember which.

Quote from: Thanos;751720So do you have multiple races simply for their exotic qualities or do they fill a roll in settings? Some times I get the feeling their are there just because that's how it's always been done.

Both? But I do sci-fi, so I like to have some sort of ecology.

It would depend on the system and the degree of crunch vs fluff.

Basically I'm trying to create my own setting and I'm mulling over races. I made up a list and it had elves and dwarves on it, with the idea to do something different with them. Then I thought why are they even on the list except that it's expected.

I guess the question is what do they add to the narrative, if anything? That might be the wrong way to put it but I can't think of anything else.

Do they fill some sort of mytho/archetype? Can that archetype be filled with humans? Probably but what is it?

Why are there God damn elves in fantasy games!!!!

Quote from: Thanos;751765Why are there God damn elves in fantasy games!!!!

If you don't wanna include them, then why would you? Is... is someone forcing you to? Are you in danger? TELL US

Or just grab mythical races from other world mythologies. Check out the Pundit's RPG based on Hindu mythology, for example. It *can* be done.

Quote from: Thanos;751765Why are there God damn elves in fantasy games!!!!

Same reason there are Orcs, Dwarves and Hobbits: the influence of the Middle Earth.

Quote from: dragoner;751769Same reason there are Orcs, Dwarves and Hobbits: the influence of the Middle Earth.

Damn you Tolkien! Damn you to hell.

(Note to self: no ranting on how boring LotR is)

Quote from: Thanos;751720So do you have multiple races simply for their exotic qualities or do they fill a roll in settings? Some times I get the feeling their are there just because that's how it's always been done.

In sci-fi, I usually spend a lot of time on races that fill a roll in the setting.

In fantasy, I usually start with just-human and then only add non-humans if there's a really good reason. But in both cases I tend to be flexible with player requests -- so if someone in the game really wants to be a dwarf, or wants to hate dwarfs, and it's not antithetical to the world, then I'd put them in.

IMO one of the major advantages of making your own setting is that you can do a lot with cultures and races. Interesting sci-fi races can really add a lot to the game. Likewise, putting in stock fantasy races can immediately establish that this game is taking place "mostly" in a highly-relatable world.

Cheers,
-E.

My setting for Dungeon Crawl Classics uses traditional fantasy races for comfort and familiarity, but twists their details.  

Elves are nomadic sociopaths that made slaves of all the other races millennia ago.  

Dwarves escaped enslavement by hiding underground, where they run around killing everything in the hope of finding more gold (accumulating wealth is all that matters to them).  

Orcs escaped as well, and tried to follow the dwarves underground but were massacred as invaders.  The few orcs that survived both the elves and dwarves had no choice but to seek refuge where everyone else feared to follow them: into a giant crashed spaceship, where the ship's computers have forcibly implanted all kinds of cybernetics into them.  

So yeah, the elves and dwarves are sadistic bastards and the orcs are persecuted survivalists (now with cyberware).  I'm contemplating including some other gonzo stuff as well, like Tinker Kobolds and medieval judge dredd types trying to impose law and order on the uncivilized chaos (complete with alchemical CSI kits).  If anybody cares I was planning on uploading it all as a free supplement to DCC once I finish fleshing it out and writing it.

Quote from: Thanos;751765Basically I'm trying to create my own setting and I'm mulling over races. I made up a list and it had elves and dwarves on it, with the idea to do something different with them. Then I thought why are they even on the list except that it's expected.

I guess the question is what do they add to the narrative, if anything? That might be the wrong way to put it but I can't think of anything else.

Do they fill some sort of mytho/archetype? Can that archetype be filled with humans? Probably but what is it?

Why are there God damn elves in fantasy games!!!!

I suggest that you do what you think is best, and if that means not including elves, dwarves, etc, then don't. I have played in many human-centric fantasy settings that worked just fine. I think the only thing to keep in mind is your players. Whatever the reason, lots of gamers like the standard races and have come to expect them, so I do think it can be a somewhat tougher sell if you have players walking in expecting to be a en elf wizard or a dwarves fighter. It can definitely be done though.

Quote from: Thanos;751765Basically I'm trying to create my own setting and I'm mulling over races. I made up a list and it had elves and dwarves on it, with the idea to do something different with them. Then I thought why are they even on the list except that it's expected.

I guess the question is what do they add to the narrative, if anything? That might be the wrong way to put it but I can't think of anything else.

Do they fill some sort of mytho/archetype? Can that archetype be filled with humans? Probably but what is it?

Why are there God damn elves in fantasy games!!!!

Nah, forget about archetypes and all that jazz. Ask yourself this: What do you need the race to do that Humans can't? Need a race that lives for 1000 years? Then add one. Need a race that can breathe water? See in the dark? Fly naturally? Etc. Then add one. Otherwise the race is just a human in a rubber suit.

I broke from GMing for the better part of a year between the summer of 1982 and the spring of 1983, and in so doing did a complete retool: ditching my homebrew VD&D for Fantasy Trip, and revamping my setting to be heavily based on Kenneth Bulmer's Scorpio series.  As such, while I kept elves and orcs as legacy races, I used the races from that series: chuliks, fristles, khibils, katakis, djangs, ochs and so on.  In the series, there's an implication that the various races were brought to the world by superhuman forces for reasons unknown; I kept the presumption.

But if I was to do it all over again?  I might not use any.  I'm mindful of Joss Whedon's explanation for not having aliens in Firefly: that in bog-standard SF, alien races paper over character traits with stereotypes.  Yeah, it's understandable if the Klingons are torturers who eat babies; they're Klingons.  Yeah, we get that the Minbari are wise and spiritual; they're Minbari.  Whedon opined that with only humans around, questions of ethics and morality couldn't be so easily waved off as aberrations of "that kind."

My homebrew fantasy setting only has humans, so far. There are two other civilized species on the planet but they haven't met yet. When I need something weird/exotic/scary there are plenty of human examples to draw from... mix n match... and beyond that there are magical constructs in a wild variety of shapes and purposes (like the droids in Star Wars... but more golem/homunculous flavored, not usually a playable 'race'... more like talking appliances).
There is a group that's a bit more like 'elves' and another that's a bit more like 'dwarves'... but that's pretty much unintentional, I wrote them down thinking 'French/Vietnamese' and 'Yeti/Caveman'.

Quote from: Thanos;751765Why are there God damn elves in fantasy games!!!!

Said before but because Tolkien. However Talisanta doesn't have elves and if you play a game based on Conan or Bran Mac Morn there won't be any elves either.
Something that might be worth trying is looking at the different faerie mythologies from around the world and seeing if you could take some inspiration from those : nearly every country has myths about ' the little people ' and they are often very different from the 'Tinkerbell ' trope that we have in the West.