After doing everything the Wokists demanded, WoTC is told #dnd is still Racist because it doesn't allow flying halflings.
#dnd5e #OneDnD #OSR #ttrpg

This is a very relevant video right now. Politically, and to the hobby, of course. But it also kinda has relevance to some of what has recently been discussed even on this site regarding how races in gaming should be mechanically. There are benefits to boundaries and limitations, as well as unique bonuses and specializations, and yes even "stereotypical" archetypes too.

More to the point societally, yes, we should not negotiate with those who want to destroy our hobby, our society and our lives. And this is something we need to understand when dealing with the woke.

I was just discussing this kind of thing IRL with a friend, too. And this video I think has helped me articulate better what I was trying to say and express.

Odysee link: https://odysee.com/@RPGPundit:0/wokists-want-grey-goo-d-d-races:a

This was a good one. While it's been clear for awhile for people who've been paying attention that caving to these irrational demands won't get anywhere, WotC has crossed the Rubicon with OneDnD and there's still no signs of these nutjobs being satisfied. It's clear the goal is to remove anything that could be said to be characteristic of a race, and therefore remove any purpose for races existing (either mechanically, or aesthetically) whatsoever.

I can help but wonder if these people would just be happier playing a game with point-buy system. (I'm joking, these people will never be happy, they just want to make everyone else as miserable as them)

I wonder, really if these SJW's are making any difference.   My group is unaware of this crap going on and no other gamers I speak to are aware either.

I wonder if its a big deal online, but to actual gamers (those of us who are actually playing games) whether it actually has an effect.

Weren't the SJW crowd just a few years ago chanting, "Our strength is in our diversity"

Quote from: GhostNinja on September 28, 2022, 01:58:06 PM
I wonder, really if these SJW's are making any difference.   My group is unaware of this crap going on and no other gamers I speak to are aware either.

I wonder if its a big deal online, but to actual gamers (those of us who are actually playing games) whether it actually has an effect.

Well, the 30-odd people that were involved in one way or another in my 5E games are now aware, since I told them I would no longer be running any WotC products, and why. 

These thing putter along with no apparent motion or gravity--until the people involved come to their senses or they don't.  WotC can get away with a lot of crap.  They can't get away with an infinite amount of crap.  We'll see if they break it off before then.

Quote from: GhostNinja on September 28, 2022, 01:58:06 PM
I wonder, really if these SJW's are making any difference.   My group is unaware of this crap going on and no other gamers I speak to are aware either.

I wonder if its a big deal online, but to actual gamers (those of us who are actually playing games) whether it actually has an effect.

I assure you that unfortunately it is reflected in the products such corporations produce, the ideologies nested therein, and the mechanics they design and that are available for play. It also determines what ads go out, who feels ideologically welcome or unwelcome in the hobby, and at events and the like, etcetera. We game mostly within our bubbles, but trust me when I say even there it can have an impact. To say nothing of broader societal consequences and contexts.

Quote from: GhostNinja on September 28, 2022, 01:58:06 PM
I wonder, really if these SJW's are making any difference.   My group is unaware of this crap going on and no other gamers I speak to are aware either.

I wonder if its a big deal online, but to actual gamers (those of us who are actually playing games) whether it actually has an effect.

I could be wrong but I think it is mostly DMs that spend time on blogs and forums and such.

Quote from: Ruprecht on September 28, 2022, 02:27:00 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on September 28, 2022, 01:58:06 PM
I wonder, really if these SJW's are making any difference.   My group is unaware of this crap going on and no other gamers I speak to are aware either.

I wonder if its a big deal online, but to actual gamers (those of us who are actually playing games) whether it actually has an effect.

I could be wrong but I think it is mostly DMs that spend time on blogs and forums and such.

And writers.

This isn't as cut and dry as, "Grrr. Woke."

Pundit lays out a good case for racial modifiers reinforcing archetypes. Dwarves are warriors, elves are wizards and druids, halflings are rogues, and so forth. This is a decision you can make, and it's a fine decision, but it does have other ramifications for your game.

The current edition of D&D has a problem with in-game demographics. It's one thing if 80% of your dwarves are fighters. That's using races to play to an archetype for flavor. If 80% of your fighters are dwarves, maybe you want to rethink how your races are designed. It seems to me like that's where 5E is at right now. Nobody plays humans, because why would you? But also, nobody plays dwarf fighters, all the fighters are half-orcs or dragonborn. The elves are all rangers and rogues, no elf wizards or druids. The wizards are all gnomes, the warlocks are all tieflings. That extra +1 bonus you get to your rolls from having a racial bonus to your main ability score is just too important in 5E, especially at low levels.

I don't think WotC's decision is actually driven by wokists. I'll bet they took a look at data on D&D Beyond and noticed that 75% or more of the characters are variations on the same 8-10 race/class combinations. Wokism is just the spin they put on it, because that's what they think is hot right now.

Quote from: Corolinth on September 28, 2022, 03:18:39 PM
I don't think WotC's decision is actually driven by wokists. I'll bet they took a look at data on D&D Beyond and noticed that 75% or more of the characters are variations on the same 8-10 race/class combinations. Wokism is just the spin they put on it, because that's what they think is hot right now.

I don't think that's the case. Any evidence to back this up?

Quote from: Corolinth on September 28, 2022, 03:18:39 PM
The current edition of D&D has a problem with in-game demographics. It's one thing if 80% of your dwarves are fighters. That's using races to play to an archetype for flavor. If 80% of your fighters are dwarves, maybe you want to rethink how your races are designed. It seems to me like that's where 5E is at right now. Nobody plays humans, because why would you? But also, nobody plays dwarf fighters, all the fighters are half-orcs or dragonborn. The elves are all rangers and rogues, no elf wizards or druids. The wizards are all gnomes, the warlocks are all tieflings. That extra +1 bonus you get to your rolls from having a racial bonus to your main ability score is just too important in 5E, especially at low levels.

I don't think WotC's decision is actually driven by wokists. I'll bet they took a look at data on D&D Beyond and noticed that 75% or more of the characters are variations on the same 8-10 race/class combinations. Wokism is just the spin they put on it, because that's what they think is hot right now.

+1 to a score, or even +2 and a guaranteed +1 to a modifier, kinda means very little in a game where even the latter makes a halfling only 5% less likely to win an arm wrestling contest by "missing out". If anything, it's not enough differentiation between a gnome and a human for the human to maybe (depending on stat choice, but potentially not even this much) have a +1 extra to strength. Face facts, people play dwarf fighters because that's what they like to play.

Likewise, racial traits, themselves key for player choice and adding flavor to and differentiating nonhuman species, are a much more meaningful way of differentiating builds on a racial basis, especially where stat generation is random. But the woke as proven by articles like the ones referenced in the video want to do away with "bioessentialism", or mechanical differences between species, by killing them as well. Your recommendations as implemented in Tasha's only served to shift the meta in a way that broke the original balancing and screwed over humans and half elves, because they were predicated on assignable bonuses as opposed to strong species traits. While mechanically entrenching the ludicrous idea that an equally specialized gnome will have a higher strength score than a human on account of their now assignable +2 modifier. It's all totally nonsensical and damages game balance and mechanical play, as well as roleplaying and connection to the lore.

Even if it were due to minmax that the rulebook were somehow causing archetypes to be played, that would be mostly a player attitude "problem". On which note, casters or partial casters are generally a superior mid-later game choice, but that won't and doesn't stop me and a lot of other people from playing martial archetypes, so I question the validity of minmax as the one true explanation for uncited D&D Beyond statistics, which themselves arguably do not represent the hobby at large.  Mountain Dwarf Casters are a superior build cuz it gives casters free medium armor, but nobody goes for that because the archetype isn't appealing. People sometimes like and find value in certain combinations and archetypes, efficacy be damned, and I don't think it's right to label that "badwrongfun" or whatever. Heck, even minmax itself is in essence just specialization, that can at times add flavor, and is itself made possible through systems that encourage player choice and meaningful build decisions.

Also, Wizards is pretty woke, though there are threads on both that and the wokeness of their products, so I'll leave you to look that up. Also, Tasha's was explicitly in part a roll-over response to BS allegations of differentiation in species ability boosts being racist.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on September 28, 2022, 02:17:07 PM
Well, the 30-odd people that were involved in one way or another in my 5E games are now aware, since I told them I would no longer be running any WotC products, and why. 

These thing putter along with no apparent motion or gravity--until the people involved come to their senses or they don't.  WotC can get away with a lot of crap.  They can't get away with an infinite amount of crap.  We'll see if they break it off before then.

Understood.  What are you switching to in order to get your fantasy fix?

Quote from: KindaMeh on September 28, 2022, 02:23:03 PM
I assure you that unfortunately it is reflected in the products such corporations produce, the ideologies nested therein, and the mechanics they design and that are available for play. It also determines what ads go out, who feels ideologically welcome or unwelcome in the hobby, and at events and the like, etcetera. We game mostly within our bubbles, but trust me when I say even there it can have an impact. To say nothing of broader societal consequences and contexts.

Then I guess the best thing we can do is promote the OSR and other fantasy (and non-fantasy) games so that people know that there are other things to play.   Then there is less money going into WOTC's pockets and perhaps it will make a difference.