The Wokist SJWs keep alternating between trying to destroy the #OSR (or declare it "dead") and trying to infiltrate/subvert it. But the structure of the OSR is a model for how to resist Wokism. Their latest efforts are getting desperate, and just preaching to a diminishing choir.
#ttrpg #dnd
Never underestimate their ability to co-opt anything. All they need is a foothold to start poisoning minds and then the disease spreads. Its no different from how storygamer cultist came to infest RPGs.
Make
Adventuring
Great
Again!
As for the OSR being dead, the rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated. But what would the "death of the OSR" even mean or look like? We're a tiny part of a hobby that has mostly gone full retard. We'd just continue being tiny and not-retarded.
Quote from: Spinachcat on June 12, 2022, 08:09:30 PM
Make
Adventuring
Great
Again!
As for the OSR being dead, the rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated. But what would the "death of the OSR" even mean or look like? We're a tiny part of a hobby that has mostly gone full retard. We'd just continue being tiny and not-retarded.
What is Dead Can Never Die.
Quote from: Spinachcat on June 12, 2022, 08:09:30 PM
Make
Adventuring
Great
Again!
As for the OSR being dead, the rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated. But what would the "death of the OSR" even mean or look like? We're a tiny part of a hobby that has mostly gone full retard. We'd just continue being tiny and not-retarded.
The "death of the OSR" would any combination of three conditions:
1) No one is making new OSR products
2) No one is buying new OSR products
3) No one new is playing OSR games
None of these three are the case, or likely to be the case as long as I'm alive.
Quote from: RPGPundit on June 13, 2022, 01:16:46 PM
The "death of the OSR" would any combination of three conditions:
1) No one is making new OSR products
2) No one is buying new OSR products
3) No one new is playing OSR games
None of these three are the case, or likely to be the case as long as I'm alive.
You forget that all the cult has to do is co-opt enough of the OSR, or key points and then its no longer the OSR. But then it never was anynow. Watching a fake movement try to take over another fake movement is like the epitome of pathetic. RPGs are disjointed even more than the OSR and yet we have seen them co-opt companies left and right.
If people do not fight back then sooner or later they will take over and the OSR will be just another agenda platform.
Quote from: Omega on June 13, 2022, 05:30:23 PM
You forget that all the cult has to do is co-opt enough of the OSR, or key points and then its no longer the OSR.
Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video.
Quote from: RPGPundit on June 16, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video.
And you still "uh" too much. 8)
No, really. You were uh-ing on average once every 10 seconds at the start. Then as usual this falls off once you get revved up. but you fall back into uh-ing once you lose momentum.
Quote from: Omega on June 12, 2022, 06:53:23 AM
Never underestimate their ability to co-opt anything. All they need is a foothold to start poisoning minds and then the disease spreads. Its no different from how storygamer cultist came to infest RPGs.
Who are the big names in the OSR?
DCC, Swords & Wizardry, White Box FMAG, Basic Fantasy, OSE, LotFP, Labirynth Lord, Castles & Crusades, Sine Nomine, Autarch, Pundit, Grim (did I miss any?)
And countless smaller publishers.
Who among all of those can claim to be the Pope of the OSR? Who among those can impose their will on the rest?
Taking over a company is easy, just get a cultist hired in HR, then little by little the company will switch to do the parasite's biding and not pursuing what would be best for it's survival.
Now paint me a plausible scenario where they manage to do so with the OSR. A decentralized movement with no head or tail, or rather hundreds of heads, a Hydra where if you cut one head two more will grow.
Lets say they get DCC, Swords & Wizardry, White Box, Basic Fantasy, OSE & Sine Nomine. That's 6 of the big names, so they go down the woke path... Then what? What happens next? All the rest just follow like sheep?
Not likely, what is likely to happen is the others will rise to grab that market and some of the smaller ones will also try and do so.
The OGL means they can't win, they can take the WotC's and Paizo's (and are welcome to) because those have a centralized structure, the OSR doesn't, for fucks sake you can't make them agree on AC or ACC! And that's just the D20 based games.
Add the OpenD6, Cepheus Engine and other open SRDs...
Nope, they can destroy the big names (and I pray they do), this will only work as a wild fire clearing the path for new younger, healthier plants to fill the voids.
DCC is already in that category with their mass pronoun revisionism among other things.
Quote from: Persimmon on June 16, 2022, 09:03:57 PM
DCC is already in that category with their mass pronoun revisionism among other things.
Okay, how does that disprove my argument?
Meatball is the Star of the Show!
I can't wait for the next episode of the Meatball and Big Chungus Show that Pundit narrates!
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 16, 2022, 05:14:41 PM
Now paint me a plausible scenario where they manage to do so with the OSR. A decentralized movement with no head or tail, or rather hundreds of heads, a Hydra where if you cut one head two more will grow.
And yet they have gained footholds in countless decentralized groups and continue to spread?
Heres what could happen and has happened to others.
A: They get a foothold in some of the smaller ones, or one bigger one in the OSR and then start applying pressure in others to follow suit.
B: Eventually others will cave to infiltration, threats, or the usual SJW lies. Especially if they can poison marketing, which is ridiculously easy.
C: As they gain more foothold others will fold or be co-opted. Or worse, as we have been seeing now and then. Others will make WokeOSR games thinking this is the norm, or trendy and again you have this disease spreading.
D: Discredit or "cancel" any opposition. Which they are trying to do even now.
The only reason we have not seen a more concerted attack is because their attention is still mostly elsewhere. The OSR is not as juicy a target as other venues. Yet.
And the so called OSR isnt any better. Let the fake movements battle it out.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 16, 2022, 05:14:41 PM
Nope, they can destroy the big names (and I pray they do), this will only work as a wild fire clearing the path for new younger, healthier plants to fill the voids.
I'm hoping this happens sooner rather than later. I'm sick of stagnant bloated messes dominating the market.
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 17, 2022, 06:34:40 AM
Meatball is the Star of the Show!
I can't wait for the next episode of the Meatball and Big Chungus Show that Pundit narrates!
Sadly Big Chungus passed away recently, so it's just the Meatball show now.
QuoteAnd yet they have gained footholds in countless decentralized groups and continue to spread?
Because a) zoomer generation is way more left leaning b) important hobbies for culture are corporately owned - power of RPG over overall culture is... well irrelevant in large scope of things
Bonus is: it's naturally libertarian hobby - your table is always yours. There are always methods to spread non-woke RPGs even if population gonna turn left so hard it will be non-commercial activity.
Plot twist is: most of RPG producers, and most of OSR mayor producer, and most of NERDS are left-leaning. Way more than overall population. There is way less nerds among conservatists than among liberals.
That's not hobby problem, that's society problem.
There is not enough widely-understood right-wing nerds to grew as big as leftists. Simple enough.
Quote from: Wrath of God on June 18, 2022, 03:59:31 PM
QuoteAnd yet they have gained footholds in countless decentralized groups and continue to spread?
Because a) zoomer generation is way more left leaning b) important hobbies for culture are corporately owned - power of RPG over overall culture is... well irrelevant in large scope of things
Bonus is: it's naturally libertarian hobby - your table is always yours. There are always methods to spread non-woke RPGs even if population gonna turn left so hard it will be non-commercial activity.
Plot twist is: most of RPG producers, and most of OSR mayor producer, and most of NERDS are left-leaning. Way more than overall population. There is way less nerds among conservatists than among liberals.
That's not hobby problem, that's society problem.
There is not enough widely-understood right-wing nerds to grew as big as leftists. Simple enough.
You started off well, then got wrong quickly. There are different types of nerds. The "liberal arts, rainbow hair, drama kids" type are overwhelmingly FAR left. But the electronics, computer gaming, science nerds? They are just as logical-minded (and right-wing-ish) as ever. The only place on the planet you still hear the word "fag" used as a derogatory term is online video games. You either underestimate the number of science nerds out there, or you have mistakenly defined "nerd." The reason you think that RPG nerddom is primarily left wing is because that's what social media and the big companies promote. And the drama kids do love their "let's pretend". But they are, at most, 50% of the hobby. There's a lot more diversity out there than you give credit to.
There's also the military gaming nerds. Every base that I was stationed at back in the 80s and 90s had a game store right outside of the gates. The store owners knew that the mil-spec types had disposable income and a powerful desire for entertainment that was unlimited and portable.
There is a woke OSR group on Facebook. The moderators are devout cowards. They love to hang people who aren't on there (like me) because they are simply too scared to debate face to face. It's comical and pathetic.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 16, 2022, 05:14:41 PMWho among all of those can claim to be the Pope of the OSR?
RPGPundit, of course!
You just know he has the hat.
Seriously? Have you looked at Grim Jim's collection of hats? We might need a OSR Pope for each hemisphere. :-D
Quote from: Spinachcat on June 21, 2022, 01:46:22 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 16, 2022, 05:14:41 PMWho among all of those can claim to be the Pope of the OSR?
RPGPundit, of course!
You just know he has the hat.
Quote from: zircher on June 21, 2022, 11:16:26 AM
Seriously? Have you looked at Grim Jim's collection of hats? We might need a OSR Pope for each hemisphere. :-D
Urbanski VI and Grimment VII? :)
...I'll just show myself to the door now.
Quote from: zircher on June 21, 2022, 11:16:26 AM
Seriously? Have you looked at Grim Jim's collection of hats? We might need a OSR Pope for each hemisphere. :-D
You mean tri-sphere, right? I'm at least a third OSR Pope, hoss!
VS
Quote from: VengerSatanis on June 22, 2022, 10:04:12 AM
Quote from: zircher on June 21, 2022, 11:16:26 AM
Seriously? Have you looked at Grim Jim's collection of hats? We might need a OSR Pope for each hemisphere. :-D
You mean tri-sphere, right? I'm at least a third OSR Pope, hoss!
VS
I thought you were the OSR Evil High Priest of the Devil? Pundit is either the OSR EHP of the World, or the OSR CE World Revolutionary. Zak S was OSR EHP of the Flesh, but appears to have vacated the post.
;) ;D
Yeah, if we're going with multiple titles, that's fine. But if there's Pope or nothing, then I'm a Pope, hoss!
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 17, 2022, 06:34:40 AM
Meatball is the Star of the Show!
I can't wait for the next episode of the Meatball and Big Chungus Show that Pundit narrates!
I've got some bad news for you, I guess you missed it, but Big Chungus passed away back in March.
Quote from: Gegilles on June 20, 2022, 10:21:11 PM
There is a woke OSR group on Facebook. The moderators are devout cowards. They love to hang people who aren't on there (like me) because they are simply too scared to debate face to face. It's comical and pathetic.
In case you don't know, there's a group called OSR-HQ which is anti-woke on Facebook.
Quote from: Spinachcat on June 21, 2022, 01:46:22 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 16, 2022, 05:14:41 PMWho among all of those can claim to be the Pope of the OSR?
RPGPundit, of course!
You just know he has the hat.
Actually, I don't like hats. I've got a bunch of weird esoteric vestments, but no big pointy hats.
QuoteYou started off well, then got wrong quickly. There are different types of nerds. The "liberal arts, rainbow hair, drama kids" type are overwhelmingly FAR left. But the electronics, computer gaming, science nerds? They are just as logical-minded (and right-wing-ish) as ever. The only place on the planet you still hear the word "fag" used as a derogatory term is online video games. You either underestimate the number of science nerds out there, or you have mistakenly defined "nerd." The reason you think that RPG nerddom is primarily left wing is because that's what social media and the big companies promote. And the drama kids do love their "let's pretend". But they are, at most, 50% of the hobby. There's a lot more diversity out there than you give credit to.
Maybe. Generally conservative part of fandom generates way less fuzz in RPG market, compared let's say video games.
So I'd expect "science nerds" or "unwoke nerds" to gravitate more towards boardgames, wargames but also video games.
QuoteUrbanski VI and Grimment VII? :)
...I'll just show myself to the door now.
Oh sweet, another Western papal schism beyond human comprehension.
Quote from: RPGPundit on June 22, 2022, 04:45:35 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat on June 21, 2022, 01:46:22 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 16, 2022, 05:14:41 PMWho among all of those can claim to be the Pope of the OSR?
RPGPundit, of course!
You just know he has the hat.
Actually, I don't like hats. I've got a bunch of weird esoteric vestments, but no big pointy hats.
If you wear the vestments just so, there is no need for a hat...
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.3bfce9baaaf6a81012f684e24bca9f1d?rik=i4GztCbzvAX9Pw&riu=http%3a%2f%2f4.bp.blogspot.com%2f-8ZBw2Hs0BoU%2fUbmQUAEmc1I%2fAAAAAAAAAV4%2fTVr1OvpnHKU%2fs1600%2fbeaviscornholio.jpg&ehk=k3TCSt6ggyBI3IIa0Ffa0iRsCZCFmAjzOf0tpSjDpwY%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)
Sadness. :'( F in the chat for Big Chungus. (no, you don't have to. just youth meme culture.)
Quote from: RPGPundit on June 22, 2022, 04:44:07 PMI've got some bad news for you, I guess you missed it, but Big Chungus passed away back in March.
Sorry about Big Chungus.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 16, 2022, 05:14:41 PM
Quote from: Omega on June 12, 2022, 06:53:23 AM
Never underestimate their ability to co-opt anything. All they need is a foothold to start poisoning minds and then the disease spreads. Its no different from how storygamer cultist came to infest RPGs.
Who are the big names in the OSR?
DCC, Swords & Wizardry, White Box FMAG, Basic Fantasy, OSE, LotFP, Labirynth Lord, Castles & Crusades, Sine Nomine, Autarch, Pundit, Grim (did I miss any?)
Pffft lol
And countless smaller publishers.
Who among all of those can claim to be the Pope of the OSR? Who among those can impose their will on the rest?
Taking over a company is easy, just get a cultist hired in HR, then little by little the company will switch to do the parasite's biding and not pursuing what would be best for it's survival.
Now paint me a plausible scenario where they manage to do so with the OSR. A decentralized movement with no head or tail, or rather hundreds of heads, a Hydra where if you cut one head two more will grow.
Lets say they get DCC, Swords & Wizardry, White Box, Basic Fantasy, OSE & Sine Nomine. That's 6 of the big names, so they go down the woke path... Then what? What happens next? All the rest just follow like sheep?
Not likely, what is likely to happen is the others will rise to grab that market and some of the smaller ones will also try and do so.
The OGL means they can't win, they can take the WotC's and Paizo's (and are welcome to) because those have a centralized structure, the OSR doesn't, for fucks sake you can't make them agree on AC or ACC! And that's just the D20 based games.
Add the OpenD6, Cepheus Engine and other open SRDs...
Nope, they can destroy the big names (and I pray they do), this will only work as a wild fire clearing the path for new younger, healthier plants to fill the voids.
Quote from: zircher on June 19, 2022, 05:09:45 PM
There's also the military gaming nerds. Every base that I was stationed at back in the 80s and 90s had a game store right outside of the gates. The store owners knew that the mil-spec types had disposable income and a powerful desire for entertainment that was unlimited and portable.
All the D&D players in my town in the '80s came from the military at first. My first DM in high school was a sergeant from the local Marine recruiter's office.
I adamantly refuse to watch Youtube videos, because Youtube is the devil, but I'll chime in anyway:
People used to think that only corporations were going woke, but never movies, comic books, or RPGs. Then comic books went woke and people said "Oh but movies appeal to the lowest common denominator, it won't happen here." Then the same thing happened to comics. People in RPG communities were saying "No, it can't happen here, we use our imagination and just won't play with those people."
Lo and behold, the common denominator RPGs (in already a small market!) have been subverted and those that haven't been subverted are small fringe movements that don't sell many copies and are at constant risk of being deplatformed by larger publishers, algorthim'd on social media, and so on.
Now people are saying it won't happen in OSR. Well, you can screencap this. It will happen. I'm not certain how, but I think it'll be typical subversion. The first thing it'll be are demands that are reasonable like "Maybe we should take out the Tranny Monster who curses people to swap genitalia, it's crude and immature." Then it'll be "well, the orcs are a negative stereotype... it's wrong to say that they're ALL evil," then it'll be something else. And you can say "Well, I'll ignore it." But the problem is that THEIR message is going to be amplified, while yours will be silenced. And yes, you might still get people, but if push comes to shove, they can just declare, say.. this website a hotbed for hate speech and rabble-rousing and pester the provider to shut it down. Oops.
But of course, what's more insidious is the fact that they are better organized in "education." This hypothetical new-OSR is going to have popular-looking and interesting "webinars" and presentations, which are also going to be amplified over social media. They're going to have popular (not with you) Youtubers and other influencers. They'll have more funding. And then with this new crowd of younger nu-OSR people rushing in, the OSR movement will be just as co-opted. "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man."
"Sure," you might say, "I'll just keep doing my own thing." If you're fine with just playing with a tiny group of people, sure, more power to you. But that's true of any RPG. Cut out the dumb shit, keep the good shit, whatever. But you're not going to get any new players or new ideas or influence. You're gonna get smear campaigns and so on. }
Go ahead and read this while you're at it: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths (https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths)
Quote from: drayakir on July 20, 2022, 11:26:54 AM
I adamantly refuse to watch Youtube videos, because Youtube is the devil, but I'll chime in anyway:
People used to think that only corporations were going woke, but never movies, comic books, or RPGs. Then comic books went woke and people said "Oh but movies appeal to the lowest common denominator, it won't happen here." Then the same thing happened to comics. People in RPG communities were saying "No, it can't happen here, we use our imagination and just won't play with those people."
Lo and behold, the common denominator RPGs (in already a small market!) have been subverted and those that haven't been subverted are small fringe movements that don't sell many copies and are at constant risk of being deplatformed by larger publishers, algorthim'd on social media, and so on.
Now people are saying it won't happen in OSR. Well, you can screencap this. It will happen. I'm not certain how, but I think it'll be typical subversion. The first thing it'll be are demands that are reasonable like "Maybe we should take out the Tranny Monster who curses people to swap genitalia, it's crude and immature." Then it'll be "well, the orcs are a negative stereotype... it's wrong to say that they're ALL evil," then it'll be something else. And you can say "Well, I'll ignore it." But the problem is that THEIR message is going to be amplified, while yours will be silenced. And yes, you might still get people, but if push comes to shove, they can just declare, say.. this website a hotbed for hate speech and rabble-rousing and pester the provider to shut it down. Oops.
But of course, what's more insidious is the fact that they are better organized in "education." This hypothetical new-OSR is going to have popular-looking and interesting "webinars" and presentations, which are also going to be amplified over social media. They're going to have popular (not with you) Youtubers and other influencers. They'll have more funding. And then with this new crowd of younger nu-OSR people rushing in, the OSR movement will be just as co-opted. "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man."
"Sure," you might say, "I'll just keep doing my own thing." If you're fine with just playing with a tiny group of people, sure, more power to you. But that's true of any RPG. Cut out the dumb shit, keep the good shit, whatever. But you're not going to get any new players or new ideas or influence. You're gonna get smear campaigns and so on. }
Go ahead and read this while you're at it: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths (https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths)
OK doomer. Don't choke on all those blackpills.
Quote from: drayakir on July 20, 2022, 11:26:54 AM
"Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man."
Don't you mean "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the genderfluid snowflake."
Quote from: Skullking on July 20, 2022, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: drayakir on July 20, 2022, 11:26:54 AM
"Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man."
Don't you mean "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the genderfluid snowflake."
Well, it depends on what you teach the child.
Quote from: drayakir on July 20, 2022, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: Skullking on July 20, 2022, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: drayakir on July 20, 2022, 11:26:54 AM
"Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man."
Don't you mean "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the genderfluid snowflake."
Well, it depends on what you teach the child.
Ok - "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the allosexual furry." ;D
Quote from: Skullking on July 20, 2022, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: drayakir on July 20, 2022, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: Skullking on July 20, 2022, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: drayakir on July 20, 2022, 11:26:54 AM
"Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man."
Don't you mean "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the genderfluid snowflake."
Well, it depends on what you teach the child.
Ok - "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the allosexual furry." ;D
I mean. I have to imagine that there were children in Ancient Egypt's priesthood...