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Author Topic: Woking Cthulhu?  (Read 2405 times)

Svenhelgrim

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2021, 02:57:39 AM »
In The Shadow Over Innsmouth, the narrator learns to accept cultural diversity and his own mixed-race background.  He also learns religious tolerance, and that Cthulism is actually a peacful philosophy. 

The SJW’s got Lovecraft completely wrong.  He was actually a very progressive thinker and the “racism” in his stories was strictly from the point of view of his human characters who were unable to accept their own limitiations in the face of a vast, unfathomable, universe that cared nothing for them.

Zelen

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2021, 03:09:44 AM »
Woke & Cthulu mythos go hand in hand. The Woke are literally the cultists in mythos stories, worshipping ancient, incomprehensible evils long submerged and hoping to awaken them even if it means destroying themselves and mankind as a whole.

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2021, 07:21:37 AM »
I think CoC is relatively safe... Insane mad bastards go with the territory. Take that away and it's not Cthulhu.

Note, I don't really include games like Fate of Cthulhu which is just a cheap knock off cash in.

I don't mind the way it was done in Cthulhu Dark. As the more 'incite' (basically your view into the mythos and the futility of man's existence) you get the more fucking nuts you get and eventually become unplayable. I don't think Walmsley was trying to be woke per se.

Anyway, with an open license and a set of balls, an indie creator can be as politically incorrect as they like. 'Nout they can do about it...
« Last Edit: November 13, 2021, 08:01:40 AM by Rob Necronomicon »
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Godfather Punk

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2021, 07:48:56 AM »
Would the wokies in their shaggy wisdom seek to change Deep Ones into people who are only typically inimical to man...?
I'm sure that Ruthanna Emrys' Innsmouth Cycle will at some point be (or has been already been) used as inspiration for settings with woke Deep Ones and problematic humans.

Marchand

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2021, 09:57:39 AM »
I mistakenly picked up a 5e take on CoC called Whispers in the Dark a few years ago.

Quote from: Whispers In The Dark
The Problem with HPL
Please allow us a brief sidebar on H. P.
Lovecraft. Chances are good that if you’re
reading this you are aware of HPL’s beliefs
as they relate to race, religion, and gender.
We do not in any way, shape, or form condone
those views. They are despicable. To think
that Yog-Sothothery is limited to his writings
is to do a tremendous disservice to the folks
of all beliefs, backgrounds, and genders that
have since shaped the genre into what it
is today. This is not the mythos as it was
written a century ago. It is the mythos as it is
today, a voice for anyone and everyone.

This is just your basic virtue-signalling. I would actually be entertained to see someone have a go at bringing the Mythos itself into the big tent of just-misunderstood, although not enough to pay any money.

Scenario: one of the PCs' uncles owns a strange statuette of a monstrous octopus-faced deity. The PCs of course recognise this for imperialist patriarchy at work, and decide to liberate the statuette from the oppressor's "museum" to return it to the oppressed indigenous Pacific island people from whom it was stolen by evil white imperialists. Happily, party member (in all senses, comrades) Winthrop Prendergast is in a loving consensual relationship with Urgghurr the Deep Person, who agrees to help. Hilarity ensues.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2021, 10:25:16 AM by Marchand »
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Pat

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2021, 10:02:10 AM »
There was Whispers in the Dark.

Quote from: Whispers In The Dark
It is the mythos as it is
today, a voice for anyone and everyone.
Are you sure that wasn't written by Nyarlathotep?

Marchand

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2021, 10:36:22 AM »
There was Whispers in the Dark.

Quote from: Whispers In The Dark
It is the mythos as it is
today, a voice for anyone and everyone.
Are you sure that wasn't written by Nyarlathotep?

It's funny you say that... I think part of the horror of the Mythos that Lovecraft tries to convey is the fact that it renders all human history, social connections, and any resulting value systems and judgements irrelevant. Which is kind of what the woke brigade are trying to do as well.
"If the English surrender, it'll be a long war!"
- Scottish soldier on the beach at Dunkirk

"Sorry, we don't have the facility to take you all prisoner."
Lt-Col John "Johnny" Frost, responding to German offer to discuss surrender terms, Arnhem, Sept 1944

Neoplatonist1

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2021, 12:47:56 PM »
Maybe Cthulhu only likes eating the pink ones. Is that a plus or a minus?

PsyXypher

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2021, 12:54:59 PM »
Maybe Cthulhu only likes eating the pink ones. Is that a plus or a minus?

I'm suddenly worried more for Cthulhu's health than for that of the people he's eating.
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BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2021, 02:55:23 PM »
Call of Cthulhu has its "orclike" races of minor monsters, which it presents as irredeemably inimical to mankind. Deep Ones, for instance, view men as breeding stock at best, sacrificial victims at worst, and nonentities in the middle. Would the wokies in their shaggy wisdom seek to change Deep Ones into people who are only typically inimical to man, or do Cthulhoid entities get overlooked because they're intended to be based on the incomprehensible craziness of the Mythos?
Over on sufficientvelocity, "Leila Hahn" goes into a very deep analysis of the fishes' behavior and notes a variety of idiosyncrasies and inconsistencies. Among other things, Hahn speculates that the fishes were invented by the old ones out of pity for humanity's short lifespans and programmed to reproduce with humans to make future generations immortal. They're not actually these evil monsters who deserve extermination, they're just forgotten science experiments.

I like Hahn's analyses. The analysis of "The Dunwich Horror" was quite fascinating and terrifying. They're much more creative than anything in the Chaosium-propagated "canon."

hedgehobbit

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2021, 04:35:36 PM »
Over on sufficientvelocity, "Leila Hahn" goes into a very deep analysis of the fishes' behavior and notes a variety of idiosyncrasies and inconsistencies. Among other things, Hahn speculates that the fishes were invented by the old ones out of pity for humanity's short lifespans and programmed to reproduce with humans to make future generations immortal. They're not actually these evil monsters who deserve extermination, they're just forgotten science experiments.

So the old "not evil, just misunderstood" excuse.

Neoplatonist1

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2021, 04:42:53 PM »
Over on sufficientvelocity, "Leila Hahn" goes into a very deep analysis of the fishes' behavior and notes a variety of idiosyncrasies and inconsistencies. Among other things, Hahn speculates that the fishes were invented by the old ones out of pity for humanity's short lifespans and programmed to reproduce with humans to make future generations immortal. They're not actually these evil monsters who deserve extermination, they're just forgotten science experiments.

So the old "not evil, just misunderstood" excuse.

Given the amoral nature of the setting, that excuse applies to everything. Cthulhu isn't evil, he just is what he is. Only human conceit tries to plaster moral categories onto him. The orcs-must-be-people argument presupposes that Good and Evil exist as ontic categories.

palaeomerus

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2021, 04:53:53 PM »
Would the wokies in their shaggy wisdom seek to change Deep Ones into people who are only typically inimical to man...?
I'm sure that Ruthanna Emrys' Innsmouth Cycle will at some point be (or has been already been) used as inspiration for settings with woke Deep Ones and problematic humans.

Cthulhu is a would be colonizer. Before the elder beings colonized there was nothing. Earth Indigenes do not exist. It was just a mud ball truckstop for fungi to stop and piss on their way back to Yuggoth until this racist prick came down and brought a bunch of lab grown lackeys with it. And then the Yith borrowed it until they pissed off the polyps and had to move down the line to giant beetle things. 

Emery

Shasarak

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2021, 08:29:04 PM »
Call of Cthulhu has its "orclike" races of minor monsters, which it presents as irredeemably inimical to mankind. Deep Ones, for instance, view men as breeding stock at best, sacrificial victims at worst, and nonentities in the middle. Would the wokies in their shaggy wisdom seek to change Deep Ones into people who are only typically inimical to man, or do Cthulhoid entities get overlooked because they're intended to be based on the incomprehensible craziness of the Mythos?
Over on sufficientvelocity, "Leila Hahn" goes into a very deep analysis of the fishes' behavior and notes a variety of idiosyncrasies and inconsistencies. Among other things, Hahn speculates that the fishes were invented by the old ones out of pity for humanity's short lifespans and programmed to reproduce with humans to make future generations immortal. They're not actually these evil monsters who deserve extermination, they're just forgotten science experiments.

I like Hahn's analyses. The analysis of "The Dunwich Horror" was quite fascinating and terrifying. They're much more creative than anything in the Chaosium-propagated "canon."

You could replace the "Fishes" with "Slave Owners" and justify anything using that logic.
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BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Woking Cthulhu?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2021, 08:11:56 PM »
Call of Cthulhu has its "orclike" races of minor monsters, which it presents as irredeemably inimical to mankind. Deep Ones, for instance, view men as breeding stock at best, sacrificial victims at worst, and nonentities in the middle. Would the wokies in their shaggy wisdom seek to change Deep Ones into people who are only typically inimical to man, or do Cthulhoid entities get overlooked because they're intended to be based on the incomprehensible craziness of the Mythos?
Over on sufficientvelocity, "Leila Hahn" goes into a very deep analysis of the fishes' behavior and notes a variety of idiosyncrasies and inconsistencies. Among other things, Hahn speculates that the fishes were invented by the old ones out of pity for humanity's short lifespans and programmed to reproduce with humans to make future generations immortal. They're not actually these evil monsters who deserve extermination, they're just forgotten science experiments.

I like Hahn's analyses. The analysis of "The Dunwich Horror" was quite fascinating and terrifying. They're much more creative than anything in the Chaosium-propagated "canon."

You could replace the "Fishes" with "Slave Owners" and justify anything using that logic.
I'm just not a fan of the view that the fish people are these evil monsters that we must exterminate to keep humanity pure or whatever. I feel that sucks out the horror factor and just turns them into generic villains.

For me, the Dagon movie was pure schlock. But you know what I thought the single gem in it was? When the villain was utterly baffled by the suggestion that being an immortal fish mutant was something to be feared or despised.

I find it really frustrating that fans keep relying on schlock. That's why I'm always fascinated by the few genuinely good creepypastas like Mystery Flesh Pit National Park. It's Lovecraftian without falling into schlock clichés like "we must kill the filthy alien scum to keep them from polluting our pure blood!"