Quote from: S'mon;1113660While Racism somewhat predates the concept of 'Human Rights' per se, there is a lot of truth in this. Christianity has ideas about treating other humans well, that get in the way of what humans want to do - treating other humans badly. This became a particular problem when the Enlightenment secularised and universalised Christian values as Natural Rights. Racism developed in the 18th & 19th century, especially in the USA, as a way to get around that problem. Most cultures have no problem genociding and enslaving the other guy, but they don't have Racism as such. The first 16th century English colonists in the Americas didn't really have it either yet.

I mean... This really feels like splitting some awfully fine hairs, and frankly kind of arrogant. "Other racism isn't really racism, because those cultures are worse than ours. We're so enlightened we had to invent newer, more insidious racism." It's the same basic argument as the whole "I can hate you because of your race, but it's not racism, because you're white and I'm not and SYSTEMS OF OPPRESSION" bullshit that the current generation is dealing with.

Quote from: Bren;1113649Sure, just as there are reasons people are excessively sensitive to stuff at TBP. I understand the reasons, I just don't believe the reasons justify the hysteria. On either forum. And while this forum doesn't have the bannings, there has been a steady decline in the RPG useful content here and an increase in these bitch and moan threads. The signal to noise ratio here used to be higher and the political noise used to be confined to Punditry.

Amen. I thought I was the only one noticing that.

Quote from: S'mon;1113660While Racism somewhat predates the concept of 'Human Rights' per se, there is a lot of truth in this. Christianity has ideas about treating other humans well, that get in the way of what humans want to do - treating other humans badly. This became a particular problem when the Enlightenment secularised and universalised Christian values as Natural Rights. Racism developed in the 18th & 19th century, especially in the USA, as a way to get around that problem. Most cultures have no problem genociding and enslaving the other guy, but they don't have Racism as such. The first 16th century English colonists in the Americas didn't really have it either yet.

Yeah our Racism is so much better quality then the backwards poorly thought out Racism that those other lesser races had.  That is how you can tell we are the superior race because of the quality of our Racism.

Quote from: Bruwulf;1113659... I don't know what you were taught at college, but I promise you, white men in the 1500-1700s did not "invent" racism. Humans have been dividing people into group and other all over the globe for a long, long time.

Now if you want to say some people invented specific manifestations of racism, like specific categorization methods, or pseudo-science like phrenology that was used to justify racism, sure, but the basic underlying failing has been with humanity for a long, long, long time.

Yes, this is what I meant. Racism comes in many manifestations across history, but the one relevant to this specific context is the one used to justify specifically enslaving sub-Saharan Africans and indigenous Americans for the purposes of labor in the New World colonies. Which was enshrined in law, and which still has an annoying pernicious legacy today that continues to disenfranchise people and bar their opportunities.

The sheer gall of these people, saying that it can all be boiled down to white people being inherently evil rather than lucky at the time.

Quote from: rgalex;1113641Ok, I can see the first two but... what?  Is the third one just because of the possible "triggering" effect or something?  Overall, while yeah, Monte is kinda woke, I really haven't noticed it crop up in the games themselves.  Was that from the completely free, completely optional Consent in Gaming pdf?

I never read the Consent in Gaming PDF so I cannot tell you if it is. Even then it is a theme in Shadows overs Innsmouth. Where the residents having intermingled so to speak with Deep Ones have lost their humanity and becoming more fish like. Unless one is playing a resident or descendant of Innmouth I don't see the need for a trigger warning. For fuck sake they arexwaiting for the day when both Dagon and Cthluhu rise to clsim the world. Why would i feel anything both horror and hate id I was pkaying a character in a Lovecraft themed campaign.

@ BoxCrayonTales

I took those quotes from Gargarth signsture if anyone knows the source it is him.

Quote from: Reckall;1113622If you are shooting in Call of Cthulhu you are already dead.

Not really. Guns and such work just fine against cultists and some monsters. Even the Mi-Go can be felled with a bullet. Its the tHiNgS from the really esoteric realms and the bEiNgS running the whole gig that any attempts at combat go right out the window. Sometimes even magic insn't enough and you have to call on some other wHaTzIt to deal with it.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1113624Could you guys provide concrete examples of wokeness to give some context?

Theres some older threads here that did for Orient Express and I believe the rulebook. Look those up.

Quote from: Crawford Tillinghast;1113643The point is, once you have the game, nobody from Chaosium is going to come to your home and supervise play.

Yet.

But odds are they will try to a cons. If they haven't allready.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1113602Hey kids, the new sandwich everybody loves only has a little shit shoved into it and you can always eat around that part!! So it's not really a shit sandwich, just a delicious meal with just a wee tad of fresh poop inside. You'll hardly notice the smell if you hold your nose!

Fuck Chaosium.

You gotta draw a line somewhere.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1113644When I ran MoN a loooong time ago, it became a bit of an in-joke among the players about their "good friend" Jackson Elias, who they never interact with and who is dead the first time the see him in-game. When I saw that prequel chapter I though "I guess our group wasn't the only one".

The assumtion is either the PCs are A: just starting and it makes for a quick bit of background. B: Something an established PC/player can pick up and roll with. C: not jackasses trying to appear Smaht and failing miserably. D: maybee they should be wondering WHY they forgot their friend?

Slightly off topic Not-so-fun-fact.

I learned I had a sister I had never heard of before. And she died about a month after I learned this. I have no idea what she looks like and may never really know as she seems to have avoided photos of herself.

Quote from: Shasarak;1113671Yeah our Racism is so much better quality then the backwards poorly thought out Racism that those other lesser races had.  That is how you can tell we are the superior race because of the quality of our Racism.

Indeed !

Quote from: aztecman;1113549Greetings all -

Longtime lurker, first time poster here -  I was looking for some information and I'm hoping the group can help me.

I'm a long-time fan of call of Cthulhu, having purchased a handful of supplements here and there over the years. But never have had the opportunity to play.  Now that my group is ready to give it a go, I'd like to try running it.

My problem is I've heard a lot about the "Wokeness" of the new version and I'd like to try to avoid that at all costs.  I'm just looking for a good story and some easy beginner adventures that would fit well with our group. We're not really into the social justice movement and would just like to concentrate on telling our own stories and having fun. All that other stuff just gets in the way as far as we're concerned.  That might be all well and good for others out there, and I'm not knocking anybody for that, but it's not for us. To each their own you know.

So can anybody tell me what would be the best books and supplements to avoid for New Cthulhu? How far back do I need to go in order to play a game that is not tainted with the new agenda?  Thank you very much for your help in advance.

Aztecman

Chaosium has made pretty big changes since the 1980s to Lovecraft's pure vision. Not only are people of color playable above a SAN rating of 0, various non-Christian religions aren't automatically a front for Mythos worship.

But on a more serious note: the most popular supplements, such as Harlem Unbound and the Sassoon Files, take place explicitly in non-majority white locales and there's incentive for you to play as PC with ties to the place. Pulp Cthulhu and more than a few adventures have you fighting Nazis as bad guys, which some on this site took issue with for reasons I cannot fathom.

But on the other hand, Tcho-Tcho are still a thing, and a rather large amount of Mythos magic has been invented by Tibetan Buddhists. So you win some, you lose some.

If you're an old-timey Lovecraft purist or believe that Cultural Marxism is prominent in mainstream US politics, you probably want to stay away from CoC.

Quote from: Libertad;1113714Pulp Cthulhu and more than a few adventures have you fighting Nazis as bad guys, which some on this site took issue with for reasons I cannot fathom.

Thanks for sharing that.  It reminds me of the time NPR tweeted the Declaration of Independence and Trump supporters thought it was a direct attack on them.  

When someone publishes an adventure, it's usually much easier to make all the NPCs white men then to take an adventure that features only white men and make a diverse cast.  Making the adventure 'unwoke' to your standards should be trivial.

Quote from: Omega;1113691Not really. Guns and such work just fine against cultists and some monsters.

Works fine, as in can damage and kill the target, sure. Not so fine if the investigators are acting without government sanction and the campaign includes a risk of arrest and trial as well as the problems associated with disposing of bodies to avoid arrest.

There was absolutely no sign of the Chaosium game police overseeing things at Necronomicon at any of the games my wife or I were in and that included the session run by Sandy Petersen.