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Author Topic: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke  (Read 7326 times)

World_Warrior

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2022, 03:57:36 PM »
WOTC has cut corners before. I can still remember seeing some of the 4E having production issues (binding and ink issues), none of which was fixed by the time that 5E came about (my DMG bought in 2017 had a weird double printing of ink on some pages that gave it a weird, almost 3D effect, while other pages looked like all the text was bolded). Thankfully, got rid of most of my WOTC D&D books last week. Money for better products.

As for their latest round of books... I think it's a moot point. Whether they are losing money on their books won't really matter. They lost money on 4E. With the focus on their new One D&D (6E by another name), they are already shifting attention to how many people are engaging the new playtest materials.

I think the downfall of WOTC won't ever be their content, but requesting that their fanbase buy an entire new round of books again. It will be interesting to see how much the new books cost, reactions to said new edition, and whether it will be this popular new version of D&D or have the same reaction as PF1 vs PF2.

Omega

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2022, 05:28:06 PM »
WOTC has cut corners before. I can still remember seeing some of the 4E having production issues (binding and ink issues), none of which was fixed by the time that 5E came about (my DMG bought in 2017 had a weird double printing of ink on some pages that gave it a weird, almost 3D effect, while other pages looked like all the text was bolded). Thankfully, got rid of most of my WOTC D&D books last week. Money for better products.

That is what I meant by Hasbro tightening the dogs leash during 4e. They cut WOTCs funding substantially. I know. I talked at length with one of the designers.

As for the wavy books. Hate to say it, but that carried over into at least early 5e. My core 5e books all came with rippled pages throughout and it took pressing them under other books for a week to flatten them some. And mine and other buyers PHB had anywhere from slightly loose, to falling apart binding.

Usually a sign the books were rushed out to shops before they had time to propperly cure. That and WOTC was transitioning to a third party printer around the same time.

Secrets of Blackmoor

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2022, 06:01:42 PM »
Just for consideration as an avenue of discussion.

When you buy a product do you want to know what the political views of the maker are?

i.e. Let's say I buy a carton of milk, they should really put on there what the political leanings of the farmer and possibly the cows are.

For those in smaller markets as indy creators, should you post a tag on your game books saying what you are?

i.e. Let's say there are 1000 people who are into the kind of product I make, should I then only sell to the people in that group who also like my kind of polka dancing.

Just gonna throw that out there because I personally just want a good game without any real life BS in it from either side. I am quite capable of providing my own BS. ;)

RPGPundit

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2022, 06:34:57 PM »
Tubesock Army is OBVIOUSLY banned, for doxxing. It's not just doxxing, though, apparently he infiltrated a facebook group that was specifically for the purpose of fundraising related to the teaching I do on eastern spirituality. It was part of my income for many years as is typical in that tradition (where a teacher gives the teaching for free, and students with the means to do so financially assist the teacher, not much different than what you see in churches).
This to try to claim that I'm not actually making a full time living today off of RPGs, but he shared doxxed posts dated years ago.

I've always been very open about how much money I make from RPGs, if you read my blogs or watched my videos, you'd know that over the course of about 10 years RPGs have gone from being insignificant income to being my full-time job and complete income. As of 2018 RPGs were maybe 1/3rd of my income, which was mostly month-to-month.

As of early 2020, it was over 2/3rds of my income, which was now a little past month to month. It was from that point on that the rpgpundit presents line of books started to generate more and more income, the compilation books started, then Star Adventurer, then Invisible College, and this year Sword & Caravan. My youtube channel kept expanding and my sales skyrocketed.
Now RPGs are the vast majority of my income, income which is about double what I'd spend to live off in a month.

If you want proof that contrary to Tubesock's claims, what I wrote above is what I have ALWAYS said about my income, check out this video from March 2021 where I talk about "how to make a living off RPGs", and I repeat exactly what I'm saying now:


(incidentally, you'll note that in the video I am stunned by just how much money I'm earning in March of 2021, which was already more than I ever needed in a regular month; I just checked and my income for Oct 2022 is likely to be about 1.5 times the March '21 amount.

You'll notice Tubesock didn't post anything after 2020, because as I went beyond month-to-month type income to having five-figure fucking-around money, the purpose of that particular group he was quoting from disappeared. The last actual post that wasn't just a repost from somewhere else was in October 2021, The last post by anyone other than myself was Feb 2021, and the last actual request for any special fundraising was November 2020.

I never pretended I'm rich (ironically, the Wokists keep trying to flip flop between the two lies of "pundit is a trust fund baby who lives off an inheritance" and "pundit is an impoverished beggar"). I don't lie, not ever. I can tell you: I own a three bedroom house, in what was a good deal, that I'm still paying the mortgage off but not doing bad at that, and I make a very comfortable salary off RPGs in the thousands of dollars per month. In 2021 and 2022 roughly every other month was a new record for "most money I've ever made off RPGs", with October 2022 already (even without the month's end stuff) a new record. 
I'm not super-rich (I never expected to be, I spent my entire life running away from riches in search of other things, and living a bohemian monastic lifestyle) but I incredibly find myself with something I never ever expected from the time I started pursuing my personal spiritual cultivation instead of a career: I have a growing bank account with tens of thousands of dollars in savings I don't need to do anything with, and I don't need to concern myself about paying for anything I want.

To bring it back to this topic: the more Anti-Woke I became, the LESS BROKE I became. The more I succeeded. To the point that I make a full-time living off RPGs that would be entirely sufficient to fund my lifestyle comfortably even if I had no other means of income available, and there's no sign of it slowing down.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2022, 07:51:46 PM by RPGPundit »
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FingerRod

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2022, 06:53:00 PM »
Good riddance, Tubesock. You wasted so much of your life posting over 500 times here, never trying to be part of the community. And now you disappear forever, without a whisper. Like so many trolls before you, you will not be remembered.

And now you get to go back to your life of nothing, where nobody gives a shit whether or not you exist. I am sure you have several other groups you are plaguing, but those will dry up too.

On topic, while I do not think Hasbro has *yet* to pass over the tipping point of go woke—go broke, they are on the path. Just like Tubesock was always on the inevitable path that led to today.

Hasbro is in danger because so many higher ups at Wizards forget, or never understood, the first rule of business. Keep the thing, the thing. Make great games. Cool stories. Cool art. Amazing worlds that capture the imaginations of their customers.

RPGPundit

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2022, 07:08:56 PM »
Here you admit that Candlekeep Mysteries is "almost nominally a real product" and have nothing specifically negative to say about it, when previously you were deriding it for having the combat wheelchair and making all dungeons wheelchair accessible.

Then you go on to characterize Radiant Citadel as if it is all skill checks, which is ridiculous. In no particular order, adventures include key conflicts of:
  • defeating an elemental intent on destroying the entire region
  • defeating a plague demon that has possessed the offspring of an evil sorcerer
  • retrieve an artifact from the hands of evil abominations
  • destroying an undead monstrosity that makes people into mindless killers
  • destroy an grotesque spirit of desiccation that threatens the world
  • stopping a killer taking revenge on the children of those who wronged them
  • defeating a good magical beast possessed by spirits of madness
  • exposing a scheming killer intent on displacing his rival
  • fight through monsters to retrieve ancient artifact
  • defeat a demon intent on killing an innocent

It's true that there isn't a universal theme of good against evil. Four of the 13 adventures have fighting between rival groups where neither side is purely good or evil, and the PCs have to take sides. Also, two of the adventures involve possession where it's better to save the possessed creature (but the possessing force is clearly evil). Three have an option where the boss fight can be cut short by making a deal with the boss enemy rather than fighting. The one introductory adventure does have some humorous skill challenges like the pepper-eating contest mixed in with fighting troublesome monsters.

Having intrigue, politics, and non-combat challenges mixed into the fighting isn't out of character for D&D. It certainly isn't destroying it.

Didn't I respond to this already? Oh, you must have posted it on the video comments itself and I answered  there.

You're very good, you could write ad copy for Wizards, just the kind of thing they want: deceptive advertising that is not technically untrue, in that it is stuff in the book, but that implies that the book is a really traditional type of fantasy adventuring when in fact it's garbage deconstruction of the same, and is mostly concerned with anything but what normal gamers are looking for.

That's what Wizards has been doing when trying to sell print copies for some time now.
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Fheredin

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2022, 07:22:50 PM »
What a day to have a Doxxing incident which means a whole lot of...not much. The point about "Get Woke, Go Broke," is not that antithetical positions are automatically profitable (although they definitely can be), but that fandoms have a finite tolerance for atrocious politics being used to excuse terrible products. This is a statement of the fandom's limited patience, not a guaranteed formula for success.

It's my opinion that D&D's current problems are peas compared to where they will be soon. Hasbro has enough funds to survive poor sales, but they are indirectly dependent on the Fed's fund rate and the easy money it provides, and D&D's insane marketing engine definitely relies on it. D&D isn't going to die from politics; it's going to die from macroecon.

Jaeger

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2022, 08:23:33 PM »
... The point about "Get Woke, Go Broke," is not that antithetical positions are automatically profitable (although they definitely can be), but that fandoms have a finite tolerance for atrocious politics being used to excuse terrible products. This is a statement of the fandom's limited patience, not a guaranteed formula for success.
...

^This^

By all accounts the Strixhaven Prom book, and the Radiant woketadel are sitting on the shelves more than previous books, and even the WotC KYTube cheerleaders were having to dig deep to find ways to shill Spelljammer.

"Go Woke, Go Broke", is a signal of creative bankruptcy. Which eventually makes businesses incapable of performing their primary function.

We will continue to see a creative slide from WotC, but I fully expect D&D to get a  $$ boost in 2024. In my opinion we are several years away from WotC's selling peak. The oneVTT will have a big effect on their bottom line, and the gamers that have big sunk costs in WotC's forthcoming walled garden will be very reluctant to set D&D aside no matter how bad things get.

It is important to remember that it took the once insanely popular Dr. WHO tv show Ten Years to go from its ratings peak, to woke irrelevance.

All the same predictable signs are there in WotC D&D, and while there are aspects of the RPG hobby that will prolong D&D's run; we have seen the pattern before in other geek media to know the inevitable result.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2022, 08:32:13 PM by Jaeger »
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RPGPundit

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2022, 08:29:46 PM »


It is important to remember that it took the once insanely popular Dr. WHO tv show Ten Years to go from its ratings peak, to woke irrelevance.


True though it is not just a steady decline. The show had a slow decline from the Tennant era, that got a little faster in the Capaldi years, and then fell off a cliff in the current year doctor. Doctor who was always liberal, in the classical sense, but the moment it crashed into the abyss was when it went Full Woke.
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Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
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Lynn

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2022, 01:44:13 AM »
When One D&D was announced, they did everything they could to say that present 5e materials wouldn't become obsolete. But many reviewers that produce pretty good reviews (like Treant Monk) have pointed out that the changes are touching everything, meaning its a new game  that won't be compatible.

A lot of the adventures / settings materials released don't seem to produce reviews that are both concise (used in actual play) and positive. I think there's a valid argument to make for the wokeness but, even those that don't point that out haven't really been very positive. The most positive ones seem to be those reviewing without any play.
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Omega

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2022, 04:59:17 AM »
Oddly enough 5e Spelljammer is in its 8th printing according to the copy a friend got.

So either its selling like hotcakes. Or they are being really frugal with print runs.

Jam The MF

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2022, 01:38:20 PM »
Oddly enough 5e Spelljammer is in its 8th printing according to the copy a friend got.

So either its selling like hotcakes. Or they are being really frugal with print runs.


That's odd.  I'm sure a bunch of people bought it, just because of the subject matter in the title.  Name familiarity, will create some sales.  Maybe they had smaller print runs, too?
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Ghostmaker

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2022, 02:42:15 PM »
Oddly enough 5e Spelljammer is in its 8th printing according to the copy a friend got.

So either its selling like hotcakes. Or they are being really frugal with print runs.
Alternately: they keep finding problems in the book and having to patch them (and reprint it).

But regardless, not buying it after the retarded foorah over the hadozee/yazirians.

FingerRod

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2022, 02:51:47 PM »
Oddly enough 5e Spelljammer is in its 8th printing according to the copy a friend got.

So either its selling like hotcakes. Or they are being really frugal with print runs.


That's odd.  I'm sure a bunch of people bought it, just because of the subject matter in the title.  Name familiarity, will create some sales.  Maybe they had smaller print runs, too?

I believe it was mainly sold as a boxed set, if I remember correctly. I wonder if that is why they have smaller runs? Interesting observation though, I wonder what an eighth print run two months after release could mean.

I do remember reviews being luke warm. It seemed somewhat interesting from what I read about it.

Chris24601

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Re: Woke D&D Is Starting to Go Broke
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2022, 05:54:29 PM »
When One D&D was announced, they did everything they could to say that present 5e materials wouldn't become obsolete. But many reviewers that produce pretty good reviews (like Treant Monk) have pointed out that the changes are touching everything, meaning its a new game  that won't be compatible.
They promised modules for the 4E fans when doing their huge marketing push of “D&DNext” too… then unsurprisingly utterly failed to deliver.

Even the 3.0 to 3.5e changeover included just enough changes here and there to make the older books largely incompatible despite claims to the contrary.

So if OneD&D makes enough changes to make 5e incompatible, that’s just par for the course with WotC… promise compatibility just long enough to keep the griping muted then “whoops, looks like all you old content won’t work with it after all. Guess you’ll just have to buy new versions of it if you want to use it with the newest system.”