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Author Topic: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory  (Read 12324 times)

Bradford C. Walker

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2021, 03:00:03 PM »
Wizards of the Coast is a propaganda mill that fronts as a corporate business. Therefore the rules regarding propaganda mills apply, not corporate businesses, and propaganda mills will remain operational so long as the commanding organization believes that the mill remains useful to their overall operations. Due to the outsized influence D&D has on global popular culture, that value is huge--look at the results in other media--and so it stands to reason that there is no consequence to be felt by those of the Death Cult responsible for making D&D into yet another pozzing vector so long as that propaganda value remains.

jeff37923

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2021, 05:04:02 PM »
"Go Woke, Go Broke" - like any motto - will not be perfectly accurate, but it happens enough (especially over time) that it's likely to remain a popular motto.

As for D&D and RPGs, the situation is like everything else in the culture war. AKA, WotC has chosen their side and thus, alienates the other side. Other companies are following suit. Of course, this only will accelerate the wokeness as multiple companies try to compete for the left side dollars.

While WotC's total collapse would be fun, it has already happened for those on the right side of the culture war. AKA, they are no longer a viable vendor of fun. It's like RPG.net - for those who enjoy wokeness in their RPGs, that site provides them pleasure, but provides nothing for those who want their RPGs without politics.

It will be interesting to see how wokeness alters conventions in the next year. I predict the cultural divide and cultural battles will become significant issues in the public play of RPGs and other games.

In response, I give you John Ringo on "Why Cons Are Failing".

Quote
John Ringo
August 29, 2016
Moshe Feder

(Name redacted)
I have some hope after seeing Moshe Feder's comments. I was talking with the owner of a comic book store in town who has been active in fandom for a long time. He use to be involved in cons and was a Fan Guest of Honor at Dragon Con one year. He told (me) the split in fandom occurred during the Vietnam War. I started reading science fiction around the time the US involvement in Vietnam was winding down.

John Ringo

Moshe's comment actually made me angry as hell. Mostly because I knew he had a brain and I couldn't believe it had taken him this long to use it.

The split back then was specifically and pointedly quashed by both sides of fandom and pros. (Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov and Bob Tucker were all involved.)

Everyone agreed to disagree on the subject of the war but get along within fandom.

This split is different. It has been widening at least since the mid 90s and shows no signs of healing. Because both 'pro-fans' and 'pros' need to start to realize both sides have points to share. Alas, nobody on the left is willing to cede the slightest bit of ground and the right has gotten so tired of being vilified they're unwilling to even start the conversation.

I know I'm unwilling. We've tried repeatedly to 'open a dialogue' and got fucked over for it just as repeatedly. (Please see my RavenCon AAR for one example.) Pretty much we (conservative/libertarian authors/fans) are done and could give two shits what anyone thinks.

The complete absence of a huge market from various cons (all the, yes, conservative/libertarian readers who get tired of being treated like shit) is one of the many reasons lit-cons are failing. (See below.) But from the POV of the left, 'it's better to burn a village than save it.'

RL example: SheVaCon. SheVaCon was a small Virginia con that was about 500 members. The concom was pretty evenly split left/right but the 'right' side was very quiet in their views. (The Left not so much.) The 'right' side also had connections with Baen authors. (Not all right, BTW. Eric Flint is an avowed Communist.)

They started inviting Baen authors. Baen fans, many libertarian/ conservative, thus started to show up. They started doing a range day. More fans, really unaffiliated but in general more 'right wing' than the con had trended, started showing up. The con got much larger.

However, friends of the 'left' side of the concom were having to share their formerly safe-space with conservatives/ libertarians. They were encountering arguments they didn't like and we tended to be fairly rowdy. One woman even told me 'I wasn't even aware there WERE conservative fans!' (My reply was 'You know all those people who don't talk to you? Those are the conservatives.')

The Concom therefore instigated a putsch against the 'conservative' faction of the concom, pitching out all the people who had the connections with the 'wrong' fans.

Result?

The now 'cleansed' conom asked the usual authors to attend, citing all sorts of lies about the people who had been putsched (all friends of the authors who were getting both sides of the story.) The authors, more or less to a person and independently, told them to fuck off.

No big name authors, no huge attendance. Their attendance dropped 30% the year after the putsch. They dropped more the next year and then faded away.

One of the main reasons I attend as few cons as I do these days is the unending crap I take for being a known 'controversial conservative author'. (Although Larry has made such a name for himself in the arena people now consider me 'moderate.') Not to mention the absolute horse-shit I've had to listen to or the attempts to stifle me from 'speaking truth to power.' Being told 'That's not true!' about things that are verifiable facts. (And not even controversial ones.) 'That's not true... moving on...' is a tactic that was promoted by leftist ideologists a few years back and it got so old it was insane. Being told, metaphorically, to shut up and mind my manners cause I was a cis-male normative conservative and thus had no right to speak. WindyCon and RavenCon pretty much poisoned me against any con that MIGHT be the way they were in the future. And I now tell concoms of cons I don't know well, 'If I have to put up with crap, I'm walking and you can eat the costs.'

So... The spit is there, it's been there, it's getting wider mostly because people are finally starting to notice it and from my POV I could give a shit less. I have a few cons I attend and enjoy and there's no real need for me to attend cons in terms of market so I just hit those and ignore the rest. And the cons I attend, oddly enough, are the ones that are doing REALLY WELL whereas the ones which play the 'truefen' game are dying. Go figure.

At the current rate the 'truefen' cons will be relegated to a few large cities with enough population to support them and otherwise 'lit' cons will dry up and blow away. Except for the ones that DON'T play the 'truefen' game and ignore politics. Which as I pointed out to the con-chair of one that used those words exactly: 'In this day and age, 'we ignore people's politics, gender and race and only care if they're interesting and have a good time' IS a political statement.'

As for the truefen cons: The sooner they die off the better.

The MAIN reason they're dying off:

Cons are a business.

If you did a survey of all the 'big name' authors in SF you'd think that, based upon the general 'feel' of things, the most sales go to the left. And don't get me wrong, the left has some HUGE names. GRRM and Neil Gaiman come to mind. But if you grouped all the conservative/libertarian authors vs 'SJW' authors who were, say, midlist and higher, you'd find that the libertarian/conservative side would add up to more total sales. You don't see them on NYT, of course, they most definitely are NOT allowed to win a Hugo (very few Hugo winners are large sales authors) and you have to sort of dive deep into public records, but very few of the 'great' authors supported by the SJW side really sell worth a crap.

What does that have to do with fandom, you ask?

Why do people go to cons, by and large, the first time?
'There's someone there I've read.' (For litcons.)

Why do authors go to cons, by and large?

Most 'mid-list/high-list' authors don’t actually NEED cons to increase their sales. You'll pick up a fraction of a percent of your total sales in new readers at most. (Even at really big cons like DragonCon.)

Self publish obviously go to pimp/sell their books. But self publish isn't going to be a big draw.

'Big' authors only go to have a good time. They want to meet some new people, do some 'fan service' (being nice to fans), sign some books and generally hang out and enjoy the con.

They DON'T want to have a battle royale at every panel, be told to shut up, they don't have an opinion, be insulted and belittled, be told 'you can't say that'. Who does?

So as cons get certain reputations, big name cons/lib authors avoid them like the plague.

Since the majority of the 'new' attendees for any con are (based upon sales) more likely to attend one with a cons/lib author then you need to attract cons/lib authors to your con. But… Cons/lib authors aren't going to attend your con if it has the reputation of being an SJW blowjob fest. Trust me, we learn that lesson REALLY quick.

There's only three things important in any business, market, market, market. Cons are a business. (Absent having a sugar daddy to support them.)

Cons that can't attract cons/lib authors because of the climate of hatred can't maintain their attendance thus eventually dry up and blow away.

That's why cons are failing. The SJW cons are going for the noise rather than the reality, creating 'safe spaces' where they don't have to deal with mean, nasty conservatives and libertarians and generally limiting their market thereby. And it's killing them off one by one.

Good. The sooner they are gone the better. Fuck 'em all.

Greetings!

Damn, Jeff! ;D This is an excellent contribution! Very interesting, and enlightening as well.

Thank you for finding this and posting it here! Good stuff, man!

Everything that Ringo relates in this piece is spot-on. It reflects the enormous, and corrosive, damage that these fucking Marxist SJW's do to fucking everything in our society. Geesus these fucking sick tyrant bastards need to be fought against and opposed every step of the way.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Hey, SHARK.

The thing that gets me about this is that during the Vietnam War and the controversy surrounding it, science fiction pros and fandom agreed to disagree, but get along with each other. There was a profound fundamental difference of views, but a respect for the people who held them and the social circle that they all moved in.

Compare that with today. There is no ideological middle ground. You are expected to capitulate to the social justice mob and even the most benign questioning is met with overwhelming retaliation. It is a scorched Earth policy that leaves the culture of gaming barren and lifeless, devoid of anything unique that may challenge the narrative being established.
"Meh."

Jam The MF

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2021, 06:08:13 PM »
I refuse to capitulate to the woke mob.  I will not be assimilated!!!
Let the Dice, Decide the Outcome.  Accept the Results.

SHARK

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2021, 07:23:21 PM »
"Go Woke, Go Broke" - like any motto - will not be perfectly accurate, but it happens enough (especially over time) that it's likely to remain a popular motto.

As for D&D and RPGs, the situation is like everything else in the culture war. AKA, WotC has chosen their side and thus, alienates the other side. Other companies are following suit. Of course, this only will accelerate the wokeness as multiple companies try to compete for the left side dollars.

While WotC's total collapse would be fun, it has already happened for those on the right side of the culture war. AKA, they are no longer a viable vendor of fun. It's like RPG.net - for those who enjoy wokeness in their RPGs, that site provides them pleasure, but provides nothing for those who want their RPGs without politics.

It will be interesting to see how wokeness alters conventions in the next year. I predict the cultural divide and cultural battles will become significant issues in the public play of RPGs and other games.

In response, I give you John Ringo on "Why Cons Are Failing".

Quote
John Ringo
August 29, 2016
Moshe Feder

(Name redacted)
I have some hope after seeing Moshe Feder's comments. I was talking with the owner of a comic book store in town who has been active in fandom for a long time. He use to be involved in cons and was a Fan Guest of Honor at Dragon Con one year. He told (me) the split in fandom occurred during the Vietnam War. I started reading science fiction around the time the US involvement in Vietnam was winding down.

John Ringo

Moshe's comment actually made me angry as hell. Mostly because I knew he had a brain and I couldn't believe it had taken him this long to use it.

The split back then was specifically and pointedly quashed by both sides of fandom and pros. (Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov and Bob Tucker were all involved.)

Everyone agreed to disagree on the subject of the war but get along within fandom.

This split is different. It has been widening at least since the mid 90s and shows no signs of healing. Because both 'pro-fans' and 'pros' need to start to realize both sides have points to share. Alas, nobody on the left is willing to cede the slightest bit of ground and the right has gotten so tired of being vilified they're unwilling to even start the conversation.

I know I'm unwilling. We've tried repeatedly to 'open a dialogue' and got fucked over for it just as repeatedly. (Please see my RavenCon AAR for one example.) Pretty much we (conservative/libertarian authors/fans) are done and could give two shits what anyone thinks.

The complete absence of a huge market from various cons (all the, yes, conservative/libertarian readers who get tired of being treated like shit) is one of the many reasons lit-cons are failing. (See below.) But from the POV of the left, 'it's better to burn a village than save it.'

RL example: SheVaCon. SheVaCon was a small Virginia con that was about 500 members. The concom was pretty evenly split left/right but the 'right' side was very quiet in their views. (The Left not so much.) The 'right' side also had connections with Baen authors. (Not all right, BTW. Eric Flint is an avowed Communist.)

They started inviting Baen authors. Baen fans, many libertarian/ conservative, thus started to show up. They started doing a range day. More fans, really unaffiliated but in general more 'right wing' than the con had trended, started showing up. The con got much larger.

However, friends of the 'left' side of the concom were having to share their formerly safe-space with conservatives/ libertarians. They were encountering arguments they didn't like and we tended to be fairly rowdy. One woman even told me 'I wasn't even aware there WERE conservative fans!' (My reply was 'You know all those people who don't talk to you? Those are the conservatives.')

The Concom therefore instigated a putsch against the 'conservative' faction of the concom, pitching out all the people who had the connections with the 'wrong' fans.

Result?

The now 'cleansed' conom asked the usual authors to attend, citing all sorts of lies about the people who had been putsched (all friends of the authors who were getting both sides of the story.) The authors, more or less to a person and independently, told them to fuck off.

No big name authors, no huge attendance. Their attendance dropped 30% the year after the putsch. They dropped more the next year and then faded away.

One of the main reasons I attend as few cons as I do these days is the unending crap I take for being a known 'controversial conservative author'. (Although Larry has made such a name for himself in the arena people now consider me 'moderate.') Not to mention the absolute horse-shit I've had to listen to or the attempts to stifle me from 'speaking truth to power.' Being told 'That's not true!' about things that are verifiable facts. (And not even controversial ones.) 'That's not true... moving on...' is a tactic that was promoted by leftist ideologists a few years back and it got so old it was insane. Being told, metaphorically, to shut up and mind my manners cause I was a cis-male normative conservative and thus had no right to speak. WindyCon and RavenCon pretty much poisoned me against any con that MIGHT be the way they were in the future. And I now tell concoms of cons I don't know well, 'If I have to put up with crap, I'm walking and you can eat the costs.'

So... The spit is there, it's been there, it's getting wider mostly because people are finally starting to notice it and from my POV I could give a shit less. I have a few cons I attend and enjoy and there's no real need for me to attend cons in terms of market so I just hit those and ignore the rest. And the cons I attend, oddly enough, are the ones that are doing REALLY WELL whereas the ones which play the 'truefen' game are dying. Go figure.

At the current rate the 'truefen' cons will be relegated to a few large cities with enough population to support them and otherwise 'lit' cons will dry up and blow away. Except for the ones that DON'T play the 'truefen' game and ignore politics. Which as I pointed out to the con-chair of one that used those words exactly: 'In this day and age, 'we ignore people's politics, gender and race and only care if they're interesting and have a good time' IS a political statement.'

As for the truefen cons: The sooner they die off the better.

The MAIN reason they're dying off:

Cons are a business.

If you did a survey of all the 'big name' authors in SF you'd think that, based upon the general 'feel' of things, the most sales go to the left. And don't get me wrong, the left has some HUGE names. GRRM and Neil Gaiman come to mind. But if you grouped all the conservative/libertarian authors vs 'SJW' authors who were, say, midlist and higher, you'd find that the libertarian/conservative side would add up to more total sales. You don't see them on NYT, of course, they most definitely are NOT allowed to win a Hugo (very few Hugo winners are large sales authors) and you have to sort of dive deep into public records, but very few of the 'great' authors supported by the SJW side really sell worth a crap.

What does that have to do with fandom, you ask?

Why do people go to cons, by and large, the first time?
'There's someone there I've read.' (For litcons.)

Why do authors go to cons, by and large?

Most 'mid-list/high-list' authors don’t actually NEED cons to increase their sales. You'll pick up a fraction of a percent of your total sales in new readers at most. (Even at really big cons like DragonCon.)

Self publish obviously go to pimp/sell their books. But self publish isn't going to be a big draw.

'Big' authors only go to have a good time. They want to meet some new people, do some 'fan service' (being nice to fans), sign some books and generally hang out and enjoy the con.

They DON'T want to have a battle royale at every panel, be told to shut up, they don't have an opinion, be insulted and belittled, be told 'you can't say that'. Who does?

So as cons get certain reputations, big name cons/lib authors avoid them like the plague.

Since the majority of the 'new' attendees for any con are (based upon sales) more likely to attend one with a cons/lib author then you need to attract cons/lib authors to your con. But… Cons/lib authors aren't going to attend your con if it has the reputation of being an SJW blowjob fest. Trust me, we learn that lesson REALLY quick.

There's only three things important in any business, market, market, market. Cons are a business. (Absent having a sugar daddy to support them.)

Cons that can't attract cons/lib authors because of the climate of hatred can't maintain their attendance thus eventually dry up and blow away.

That's why cons are failing. The SJW cons are going for the noise rather than the reality, creating 'safe spaces' where they don't have to deal with mean, nasty conservatives and libertarians and generally limiting their market thereby. And it's killing them off one by one.

Good. The sooner they are gone the better. Fuck 'em all.

Greetings!

Damn, Jeff! ;D This is an excellent contribution! Very interesting, and enlightening as well.

Thank you for finding this and posting it here! Good stuff, man!

Everything that Ringo relates in this piece is spot-on. It reflects the enormous, and corrosive, damage that these fucking Marxist SJW's do to fucking everything in our society. Geesus these fucking sick tyrant bastards need to be fought against and opposed every step of the way.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Hey, SHARK.

The thing that gets me about this is that during the Vietnam War and the controversy surrounding it, science fiction pros and fandom agreed to disagree, but get along with each other. There was a profound fundamental difference of views, but a respect for the people who held them and the social circle that they all moved in.

Compare that with today. There is no ideological middle ground. You are expected to capitulate to the social justice mob and even the most benign questioning is met with overwhelming retaliation. It is a scorched Earth policy that leaves the culture of gaming barren and lifeless, devoid of anything unique that may challenge the narrative being established.

Greetings!

That's right, my friend!

Indeed, rhetoric, as well as behavior, was distinctly different during Vietnam, and many years before and since then, even. What many people mistake or fail to realise, is, it isn't merely a question of politics, or policy anymore, like it used to be.

WHY?

Because the game has changed. Democrats in this country for example used to be patriotic, law-abiding, and largely shared the same values and goals as Conservatives. They largely differed on issues of policy, procedure, funding. How much A to go here, how much B should go there, and so on. That has all changed, because the Marxists have managed to not only infiltrate much of the rest of society, but have also filtered their way through the bureaucracies and agencies and into the ranks of the Democratic Party. This ideology of Marxism, along with black supremacy, anti-Semitism, pro-Islam, Globalism, general anti-white racism, anarchism, Classism, it's all a terrible, horrifying stew, has become embraced by prominent elements within society, and within the Democratic Party. It isn't isolated to weird hippies living in buses, jello-brained college kids, or "community activists" that stand on a street corner ranting all day. Important members of the government--at all levels--federal, state, and local--zealously embrace this entire Marxist ideology, in one form or one degree or another. (Most of them are ideological and political flavours and tactics taught by Marxism to purposely corrupt target nations so as to make the takeover of the Communist "utopia" easier, by spreading hatred, division, and chaos.)

The threat to our nation, our Republic, our entire culture, is enormous and very real, making successful efforts at enforcing a "Colour Revolution" as we speak, all around us. This is why everything has changed--the stakes involved, the rhetoric, and gradually, the behavior as well. More and more people are finally waking up to exactly what the "Culture War" that began primarily in the late 1960's is all about, and realising the need to fight it and oppose it, at every opportunity. In previous decades, there were only a relative few that could see the suspicious tendencies, the disturbing policies, the tangents of problems that were slowly seeping into Democratic Party thinking, Liberal thinking, ideology, and policies. Most people blithely dismissed such concerns as "Right-Wing Extremism", myopically and naively trusting that everyday Americans would of course do what is best for the country, and nothing drastic would ever change or be threatened.

Well, just about every day now, every week, we see absolutely nutty changes, brimming with Marxism, Anarchy, Racism, and Chaos, being promoted all over the country, and promising huge changes that YOU AND I can feel and sense, RIGHT NOW.

Like people in Portland, Seattle, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Austin, Minneapolis, New York, and on and on.

That is why everything has changed, and won't ever be going back to "normal." Sanity and rationality and common sense will only be restored--as well as safety and the security of our Republic--when this country gets serious about how we have been infiltrated and subverted by Marxists and other assorted freaks that hate America, and want to see America destroyed, and "REIMAGINED." ;D

That is what we are up against, my friend, and it is pouring also into our hobby of gaming, like we see regularly as well. The absurd changes, threats, policies, and such being put forth for games and gamers alike is also deeply corrosive, hateful, divisive, and corrupt--and that is also why more and more gamers are also getting involved and raising their own voices as well in alarm and criticism of the whole SJW BS. Pundit is definitely a primary warrior in all of this, but he isn't the only one. Others are commenting and having dialogue as well, besides normal people like you and I.

I know, it is at times exhausting, and depressing. We must stand up though, every way we can.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

GeekyBugle

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2021, 07:43:50 PM »
I also felt that Ravenloft 5e was a turning point. I pointed out ratings on Amazon in the first thread you linked. And while Ravenloft started out with super low ratings, it has normalized. So much so that it looks like it will be a huge commercial success. So, in that, I was wrong. It seems the average consumer has not yet flipped a switch on WOTC.

I did have an exchange with Mistwell in that thread. After looking at posting history, I now realize this individual has no interest in honest conversation. Lesson learned, but I will not waste moving forward. Their approach to this community and conversation is dishonest.

While I was wrong about the overall TTRPG community reaction to Ravenloft, I firmly believe this is the crack in the foundation. They are at a tipping point and they show no signs of being able to help themselves.

But then I look at the other products out there. Outside of Pundit and a couple others, it is all the same shit. I am left with the conclusion that the best thing to do moving forward is:

1. Support those who actively oppose this shift towards wokism and nonsense

2. Purchase Basic D&D, 1e and 2e products

3. Purchase core 5e D&D

Those are in descending order intentionally. Outside of that, do not spend a nickel on other products, kickstarters, or companies. And unlike the woke, I am only saying what I plan to do...by no means am I telling anybody else how to spend their hard earned money.

Re your points 2 & 3: NO! that's putting money in their pockets to keep financing the woke BS.

Do not buy from people that despise you and would gladly see you dead. And even if you're not right wing, if you're a nanometer to the right of Mao that's what they want for you and yours.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

HappyDaze

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2021, 08:44:09 PM »
I also felt that Ravenloft 5e was a turning point. I pointed out ratings on Amazon in the first thread you linked. And while Ravenloft started out with super low ratings, it has normalized. So much so that it looks like it will be a huge commercial success. So, in that, I was wrong. It seems the average consumer has not yet flipped a switch on WOTC.

I did have an exchange with Mistwell in that thread. After looking at posting history, I now realize this individual has no interest in honest conversation. Lesson learned, but I will not waste moving forward. Their approach to this community and conversation is dishonest.

While I was wrong about the overall TTRPG community reaction to Ravenloft, I firmly believe this is the crack in the foundation. They are at a tipping point and they show no signs of being able to help themselves.

But then I look at the other products out there. Outside of Pundit and a couple others, it is all the same shit. I am left with the conclusion that the best thing to do moving forward is:

1. Support those who actively oppose this shift towards wokism and nonsense

2. Purchase Basic D&D, 1e and 2e products

3. Purchase core 5e D&D

Those are in descending order intentionally. Outside of that, do not spend a nickel on other products, kickstarters, or companies. And unlike the woke, I am only saying what I plan to do...by no means am I telling anybody else how to spend their hard earned money.

Re your points 2 & 3: NO! that's putting money in their pockets to keep financing the woke BS.

Do not buy from people that despise you and would gladly see you dead. And even if you're not right wing, if you're a nanometer to the right of Mao that's what they want for you and yours.
Do you have a citation for where they want him (or anyone) dead?

Valatar

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2021, 12:54:46 AM »
Just swing by Twitter whenever any well-known conservative person dies and observe all the grave-dancing going on.

Omega

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2021, 01:51:38 AM »
Given the overlap between WOTC audience - particularly their new audience of college age youth - and the primary woke demographic, if they have to choose between being woke or being anti-woke, then it would only make sense for them to go woke.

Problem is... They dont buy/watch the product as much as marketing wants companies to believe. Hence why outrage marketing is a thing.

Omega

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2021, 02:11:36 AM »
1&2: I'm not up on who this Solomon dude is, but Hasbro seems to have made something work:
The Movie...
https://www.enworld.org/threads/d-d-movie-synopsis-namechecks-harpers-red-wizards-and-neverwinter-updated-maybe-not.680194/
The Tv show...
https://www.enworld.org/threads/is-the-d-d-tv-show-based-on-drizzt.680204/


Courtney Solomon. Loraine Williams nephew whome she granted TOTAL rights over all D&D movies, TV shows and cartoons. He made the first and third D&D movies and WOTC had to go through him to get permission to do the 2nd D&D  movie. Solomon's company is also listed as co-producer of the new announced D&D movie.

As for the TV series. Either WOTC cut a deal with Solomon, or found another loophole around his stranglehold. Or whomever is making this series, assuming its real, is doing it without permission and could get sued by Solomon.

This is why WOTC originally wanted Dragonlance as 5es core setting. It is one of the few things that is not covered under Solomon's control. But for reasons unknown they did not want to include Weiss and Hickman in on it and things fell apart in the planning stages. And thus we are saddled with yet more damn Forgotten Realms.

Considering how often fake movies get announced with BIG NAME DIRECTOOOOOOORS!!! hiring them every time and every time its a fake. I'll believe it when it hits the big or small screen.

Omega

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2021, 02:39:18 AM »
In response, I give you John Ringo on "Why Cons Are Failing".

As noted before back in the 90s iteration of this stupid we had the "moral guardian" faction at an indie comic and art con first making things worse each year at the con and then finally outright sabotage the con. The next year they took over the con totally and it was DOA a year or two later. A con that had been running for 12 years. Killed. The publishers and artists formed a new con and all went there instead. Though the new wave of this stupid has been pushing again for censoring that con.

Omega

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2021, 02:40:34 AM »
The new Baldurs Gate game seems to have come and went surprisingly fast after all the hype? Weird.

I think that's mostly because it's still in early access. Basically it's still in paid beta.

ooooh? I thought it had been released already? That makes sense then if its early access/in development still.

Omega

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2021, 02:42:57 AM »
(Why lefties would complain about deviant sexual behavior is a question left to the ages...)

Because the Left always becomes the right as the SJW moral guardians demand everything be sanitized and scrubbed.
Then bitch when THEIR stuff comes under the jackboot of the cult.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2021, 09:51:32 AM »
(Why lefties would complain about deviant sexual behavior is a question left to the ages...)

Because the Left always becomes the right as the SJW moral guardians demand everything be sanitized and scrubbed.
Then bitch when THEIR stuff comes under the jackboot of the cult.
Actually, I just realized why they would whine. The protag in question was fucked up, even he admitted it.

They don't like it when they're trying to normalize bullshit and people call them out on it. This is why they get all defensive when the LGBTQABCWTF etc etc do their 'pride parades' and you get people wearing dildo costumes or leather harnesses wandering around, with normies going 'uh, wtf?!'.

FingerRod

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2021, 11:28:36 AM »
I also felt that Ravenloft 5e was a turning point. I pointed out ratings on Amazon in the first thread you linked. And while Ravenloft started out with super low ratings, it has normalized. So much so that it looks like it will be a huge commercial success. So, in that, I was wrong. It seems the average consumer has not yet flipped a switch on WOTC.

I did have an exchange with Mistwell in that thread. After looking at posting history, I now realize this individual has no interest in honest conversation. Lesson learned, but I will not waste moving forward. Their approach to this community and conversation is dishonest.

While I was wrong about the overall TTRPG community reaction to Ravenloft, I firmly believe this is the crack in the foundation. They are at a tipping point and they show no signs of being able to help themselves.

But then I look at the other products out there. Outside of Pundit and a couple others, it is all the same shit. I am left with the conclusion that the best thing to do moving forward is:

1. Support those who actively oppose this shift towards wokism and nonsense

2. Purchase Basic D&D, 1e and 2e products

3. Purchase core 5e D&D

Those are in descending order intentionally. Outside of that, do not spend a nickel on other products, kickstarters, or companies. And unlike the woke, I am only saying what I plan to do...by no means am I telling anybody else how to spend their hard earned money.

Re your points 2 & 3: NO! that's putting money in their pockets to keep financing the woke BS.

Do not buy from people that despise you and would gladly see you dead. And even if you're not right wing, if you're a nanometer to the right of Mao that's what they want for you and yours.

I fully oppose telling people how to spend their money. I clearly stated they were in descending order intentionally.

It seems we are in agreement around point one? Does it help if I clarify that point two is NOT buying reprints? By Basic/1e/2e products, I am referring to actual books produced by TSR that already exist in the market. Buying from Glenn on eBay or from his local game store does not help anybody but Glenn.

Point three is where we will likely not find common ground. I believe an across the board dip in sales would be interpreted by WOTC in a manner less likely to produce change. I am in my third decade of working for large companies, both privately held and public. Maintaining core product sales this late in the lifecycle, with unpopular/dead sales for newer support products is how new product leads get named and/or recent hiring decisions get evaluated.

Korgoth

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2021, 05:14:51 PM »
I also felt that Ravenloft 5e was a turning point. I pointed out ratings on Amazon in the first thread you linked. And while Ravenloft started out with super low ratings, it has normalized. So much so that it looks like it will be a huge commercial success. So, in that, I was wrong. It seems the average consumer has not yet flipped a switch on WOTC.

I did have an exchange with Mistwell in that thread. After looking at posting history, I now realize this individual has no interest in honest conversation. Lesson learned, but I will not waste moving forward. Their approach to this community and conversation is dishonest.

While I was wrong about the overall TTRPG community reaction to Ravenloft, I firmly believe this is the crack in the foundation. They are at a tipping point and they show no signs of being able to help themselves.

But then I look at the other products out there. Outside of Pundit and a couple others, it is all the same shit. I am left with the conclusion that the best thing to do moving forward is:

1. Support those who actively oppose this shift towards wokism and nonsense

2. Purchase Basic D&D, 1e and 2e products

3. Purchase core 5e D&D

Those are in descending order intentionally. Outside of that, do not spend a nickel on other products, kickstarters, or companies. And unlike the woke, I am only saying what I plan to do...by no means am I telling anybody else how to spend their hard earned money.

Re your points 2 & 3: NO! that's putting money in their pockets to keep financing the woke BS.

Do not buy from people that despise you and would gladly see you dead. And even if you're not right wing, if you're a nanometer to the right of Mao that's what they want for you and yours.

I fully oppose telling people how to spend their money. I clearly stated they were in descending order intentionally.

It seems we are in agreement around point one? Does it help if I clarify that point two is NOT buying reprints? By Basic/1e/2e products, I am referring to actual books produced by TSR that already exist in the market. Buying from Glenn on eBay or from his local game store does not help anybody but Glenn.

Point three is where we will likely not find common ground. I believe an across the board dip in sales would be interpreted by WOTC in a manner less likely to produce change. I am in my third decade of working for large companies, both privately held and public. Maintaining core product sales this late in the lifecycle, with unpopular/dead sales for newer support products is how new product leads get named and/or recent hiring decisions get evaluated.

I think it's still kind of a false premise that you have to buy D&D at all.

Couldn't the list be:
  • Buy the game your groups actively want to play
  • Support those who actively oppose this shift towards wokism and nonsense

The first point is really just pragmatism as a gaming group doesn't need to be about politics first.