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Author Topic: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory  (Read 2903 times)

Jame Rowe

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2021, 09:58:41 PM »
I find incompetence wholly incapable of explaining things. Malice is a much better fit.

You forgot stupidity, and none of them rule the others out.
Here for the games, not for it being woke or not.

Charon's Little Helper

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2021, 11:06:48 PM »
I find incompetence wholly incapable of explaining things. Malice is a much better fit.

You forgot stupidity, and none of them rule the others out.

"“Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common." - Harry Dresden :P

Spinachcat

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2021, 11:47:42 PM »
"Go Woke, Go Broke" - like any motto - will not be perfectly accurate, but it happens enough (especially over time) that it's likely to remain a popular motto.

As for D&D and RPGs, the situation is like everything else in the culture war. AKA, WotC has chosen their side and thus, alienates the other side. Other companies are following suit. Of course, this only will accelerate the wokeness as multiple companies try to compete for the left side dollars.

While WotC's total collapse would be fun, it has already happened for those on the right side of the culture war. AKA, they are no longer a viable vendor of fun. It's like RPG.net - for those who enjoy wokeness in their RPGs, that site provides them pleasure, but provides nothing for those who want their RPGs without politics.

It will be interesting to see how wokeness alters conventions in the next year. I predict the cultural divide and cultural battles will become significant issues in the public play of RPGs and other games.

Omega

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2021, 01:20:40 AM »
One of the big bellwether moments for D&D as an RPG will be if HASBRO's movie, tv, videogame, and other lifestyle branding takes off.

If the money coming in from those initiatives is orders of magnitude bigger than the rpg - then HASBRO could give a fuck what woke shit goes on in the RPG.

We see this effect with the Marvel and DC comics division; even after running themselves into the ground their corporate overlords have done nothing to fundamentally change what they are doing at all...

Because all the big money from the IP is being made in the films, tv, and videogame markets. And the ROI on those have so far been mighty.

1: Solomon still has the stranglehold over WOTC AND Hasbro over anything D&D in movie or cartoon. WOTC wants to do these but cant. And working with Solomon has proven so-so at best when hes kept at several arms length, and a disaster at worst. Video games have been oddly few and far between. 2 MMOs that are so-so and barely D&D and more like just a Forgotten Realms MMO with D&D as an afterthought in Neverwinters case. The new Baldurs Gate game seems to have come and went surprisingly fast after all the hype? Weird.

2: So far seems not. And the one lucerative area they want to explore, movies and cartoons, is locked off from them still. I'll be surprised if this D&D movie ever actually appears at this rate.

3: Problem is the Marvel and especially the DC movies are either running on early hype momentum and now starting to severely falter. Or in DCs case has been mostly digging its way to failure after failure. Marvels new wave of movies and cartoons are likely going to bomb aside from one or two successes as people are getting tired of the woke agenda more and more.

4: Big money can be made. But so far what we have are people in charge willing to lose money to spread their agenda. At a guess willing to bank on one or two successes to keep the ship from sinking. On the flip side in Hasbros case they were once willing to lose ALOT of money to stop bad movies being made that devalued their IPs. Then turn around and devalue their own IPs with woke agenda insertions. And thats before even getting to WOTC which they know are a problem and should have tightened the dogs leash again long before.

Odds are marketing is telling the execs that woke agenda and other marketing ploys will pay off big time down the line as they draw in new customers who are more in line with the new agenda.

TJS

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2021, 01:21:46 AM »
Given the overlap between WOTC audience - particularly their new audience of college age youth - and the primary woke demographic, if they have to choose between being woke or being anti-woke, then it would only make sense for them to go woke.

Jaeger

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2021, 03:01:51 AM »

1: Solomon still has the stranglehold over WOTC AND Hasbro over anything D&D in movie or cartoon. WOTC wants to do these but cant. And working with Solomon has proven so-so at best when hes kept at several arms length, and a disaster at worst. Video games have been oddly few and far between. 2 MMOs that are so-so and barely D&D and more like just a Forgotten Realms MMO with D&D as an afterthought in Neverwinters case. The new Baldurs Gate game seems to have come and went surprisingly fast after all the hype? Weird.

2: So far seems not. And the one lucerative area they want to explore, movies and cartoons, is locked off from them still. I'll be surprised if this D&D movie ever actually appears at this rate.

3: Problem is the Marvel and especially the DC movies are either running on early hype momentum and now starting to severely falter. Or in DCs case has been mostly digging its way to failure after failure. Marvels new wave of movies and cartoons are likely going to bomb aside from one or two successes as people are getting tired of the woke agenda more and more.

4: Big money can be made. But so far what we have are people in charge willing to lose money to spread their agenda. At a guess willing to bank on one or two successes to keep the ship from sinking. On the flip side in Hasbros case they were once willing to lose ALOT of money to stop bad movies being made that devalued their IPs. Then turn around and devalue their own IPs with woke agenda insertions. And thats before even getting to WOTC which they know are a problem and should have tightened the dogs leash again long before.

Odds are marketing is telling the execs that woke agenda and other marketing ploys will pay off big time down the line as they draw in new customers who are more in line with the new agenda.

1&2: I'm not up on who this Solomon dude is, but Hasbro seems to have made something work:
The Movie...
https://www.enworld.org/threads/d-d-movie-synopsis-namechecks-harpers-red-wizards-and-neverwinter-updated-maybe-not.680194/
The Tv show...
https://www.enworld.org/threads/is-the-d-d-tv-show-based-on-drizzt.680204/

3: Marvel does seem to be running out of steam, and DC films did do decent although not the numbers they wanted, and they still seem to be trying to find their feet. But they still made a bunch of cash - especially marvel, and they can afford to screw up things for years.

4: Yes, we can no longer rely on actual business sense or even raw buck-naked greed to keep companies from alienating their customers. And we are not even at peak woke yet IMHO!!

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in 20 years or so...
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S'mon

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2021, 04:34:51 AM »
At some point, many non-LGBTQ fans will vomit.

I have a gay male player who hates all the Woke crap ruining D&D. The Wokesters do not speak for normal people - including gay & lesbian normal people.

Naburimannu

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2021, 06:53:14 AM »
Who they hire says if they are headed to woke or not.  Universities most certainly went hard in the paint on going woke for decades.  Would anyone try to argue major universities are not woke now?

I'd dispute this briefly, but it's probably more a topic for the politics forum. Short form: some parts of some universities are "woke", and they're often made obvious in the media. Throughout the '90s and '00s, when we were hearing similar claims, there were plenty of departments of American universities with strong conservative / Christian biases.

Obligatory RPG connection: at the start of my current 5e campaign, one of the players asked for "teenage escapism" and there's been absolutely no problem giving the party that kind of experience using Rules-As-Written*. Some parts of some 5e books are "woke" but there's a perfectly playable game underneath all that, without having to invoke lots of In-My-Campaign dicta.

*: Except I always forget to give out inspiration and my players never remind me of it.

jeff37923

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2021, 07:19:45 AM »
"Go Woke, Go Broke" - like any motto - will not be perfectly accurate, but it happens enough (especially over time) that it's likely to remain a popular motto.

As for D&D and RPGs, the situation is like everything else in the culture war. AKA, WotC has chosen their side and thus, alienates the other side. Other companies are following suit. Of course, this only will accelerate the wokeness as multiple companies try to compete for the left side dollars.

While WotC's total collapse would be fun, it has already happened for those on the right side of the culture war. AKA, they are no longer a viable vendor of fun. It's like RPG.net - for those who enjoy wokeness in their RPGs, that site provides them pleasure, but provides nothing for those who want their RPGs without politics.

It will be interesting to see how wokeness alters conventions in the next year. I predict the cultural divide and cultural battles will become significant issues in the public play of RPGs and other games.

In response, I give you John Ringo on "Why Cons Are Failing".

Quote
John Ringo
August 29, 2016
Moshe Feder

(Name redacted)
I have some hope after seeing Moshe Feder's comments. I was talking with the owner of a comic book store in town who has been active in fandom for a long time. He use to be involved in cons and was a Fan Guest of Honor at Dragon Con one year. He told (me) the split in fandom occurred during the Vietnam War. I started reading science fiction around the time the US involvement in Vietnam was winding down.

John Ringo

Moshe's comment actually made me angry as hell. Mostly because I knew he had a brain and I couldn't believe it had taken him this long to use it.

The split back then was specifically and pointedly quashed by both sides of fandom and pros. (Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov and Bob Tucker were all involved.)

Everyone agreed to disagree on the subject of the war but get along within fandom.

This split is different. It has been widening at least since the mid 90s and shows no signs of healing. Because both 'pro-fans' and 'pros' need to start to realize both sides have points to share. Alas, nobody on the left is willing to cede the slightest bit of ground and the right has gotten so tired of being vilified they're unwilling to even start the conversation.

I know I'm unwilling. We've tried repeatedly to 'open a dialogue' and got fucked over for it just as repeatedly. (Please see my RavenCon AAR for one example.) Pretty much we (conservative/libertarian authors/fans) are done and could give two shits what anyone thinks.

The complete absence of a huge market from various cons (all the, yes, conservative/libertarian readers who get tired of being treated like shit) is one of the many reasons lit-cons are failing. (See below.) But from the POV of the left, 'it's better to burn a village than save it.'

RL example: SheVaCon. SheVaCon was a small Virginia con that was about 500 members. The concom was pretty evenly split left/right but the 'right' side was very quiet in their views. (The Left not so much.) The 'right' side also had connections with Baen authors. (Not all right, BTW. Eric Flint is an avowed Communist.)

They started inviting Baen authors. Baen fans, many libertarian/ conservative, thus started to show up. They started doing a range day. More fans, really unaffiliated but in general more 'right wing' than the con had trended, started showing up. The con got much larger.

However, friends of the 'left' side of the concom were having to share their formerly safe-space with conservatives/ libertarians. They were encountering arguments they didn't like and we tended to be fairly rowdy. One woman even told me 'I wasn't even aware there WERE conservative fans!' (My reply was 'You know all those people who don't talk to you? Those are the conservatives.')

The Concom therefore instigated a putsch against the 'conservative' faction of the concom, pitching out all the people who had the connections with the 'wrong' fans.

Result?

The now 'cleansed' conom asked the usual authors to attend, citing all sorts of lies about the people who had been putsched (all friends of the authors who were getting both sides of the story.) The authors, more or less to a person and independently, told them to fuck off.

No big name authors, no huge attendance. Their attendance dropped 30% the year after the putsch. They dropped more the next year and then faded away.

One of the main reasons I attend as few cons as I do these days is the unending crap I take for being a known 'controversial conservative author'. (Although Larry has made such a name for himself in the arena people now consider me 'moderate.') Not to mention the absolute horse-shit I've had to listen to or the attempts to stifle me from 'speaking truth to power.' Being told 'That's not true!' about things that are verifiable facts. (And not even controversial ones.) 'That's not true... moving on...' is a tactic that was promoted by leftist ideologists a few years back and it got so old it was insane. Being told, metaphorically, to shut up and mind my manners cause I was a cis-male normative conservative and thus had no right to speak. WindyCon and RavenCon pretty much poisoned me against any con that MIGHT be the way they were in the future. And I now tell concoms of cons I don't know well, 'If I have to put up with crap, I'm walking and you can eat the costs.'

So... The spit is there, it's been there, it's getting wider mostly because people are finally starting to notice it and from my POV I could give a shit less. I have a few cons I attend and enjoy and there's no real need for me to attend cons in terms of market so I just hit those and ignore the rest. And the cons I attend, oddly enough, are the ones that are doing REALLY WELL whereas the ones which play the 'truefen' game are dying. Go figure.

At the current rate the 'truefen' cons will be relegated to a few large cities with enough population to support them and otherwise 'lit' cons will dry up and blow away. Except for the ones that DON'T play the 'truefen' game and ignore politics. Which as I pointed out to the con-chair of one that used those words exactly: 'In this day and age, 'we ignore people's politics, gender and race and only care if they're interesting and have a good time' IS a political statement.'

As for the truefen cons: The sooner they die off the better.

The MAIN reason they're dying off:

Cons are a business.

If you did a survey of all the 'big name' authors in SF you'd think that, based upon the general 'feel' of things, the most sales go to the left. And don't get me wrong, the left has some HUGE names. GRRM and Neil Gaiman come to mind. But if you grouped all the conservative/libertarian authors vs 'SJW' authors who were, say, midlist and higher, you'd find that the libertarian/conservative side would add up to more total sales. You don't see them on NYT, of course, they most definitely are NOT allowed to win a Hugo (very few Hugo winners are large sales authors) and you have to sort of dive deep into public records, but very few of the 'great' authors supported by the SJW side really sell worth a crap.

What does that have to do with fandom, you ask?

Why do people go to cons, by and large, the first time?
'There's someone there I've read.' (For litcons.)

Why do authors go to cons, by and large?

Most 'mid-list/high-list' authors don’t actually NEED cons to increase their sales. You'll pick up a fraction of a percent of your total sales in new readers at most. (Even at really big cons like DragonCon.)

Self publish obviously go to pimp/sell their books. But self publish isn't going to be a big draw.

'Big' authors only go to have a good time. They want to meet some new people, do some 'fan service' (being nice to fans), sign some books and generally hang out and enjoy the con.

They DON'T want to have a battle royale at every panel, be told to shut up, they don't have an opinion, be insulted and belittled, be told 'you can't say that'. Who does?

So as cons get certain reputations, big name cons/lib authors avoid them like the plague.

Since the majority of the 'new' attendees for any con are (based upon sales) more likely to attend one with a cons/lib author then you need to attract cons/lib authors to your con. But… Cons/lib authors aren't going to attend your con if it has the reputation of being an SJW blowjob fest. Trust me, we learn that lesson REALLY quick.

There's only three things important in any business, market, market, market. Cons are a business. (Absent having a sugar daddy to support them.)

Cons that can't attract cons/lib authors because of the climate of hatred can't maintain their attendance thus eventually dry up and blow away.

That's why cons are failing. The SJW cons are going for the noise rather than the reality, creating 'safe spaces' where they don't have to deal with mean, nasty conservatives and libertarians and generally limiting their market thereby. And it's killing them off one by one.

Good. The sooner they are gone the better. Fuck 'em all.

TJS

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2021, 07:20:54 AM »
Who they hire says if they are headed to woke or not.  Universities most certainly went hard in the paint on going woke for decades.  Would anyone try to argue major universities are not woke now?

I'd dispute this briefly, but it's probably more a topic for the politics forum. Short form: some parts of some universities are "woke", and they're often made obvious in the media. Throughout the '90s and '00s, when we were hearing similar claims, there were plenty of departments of American universities with strong conservative / Christian biases.

Obligatory RPG connection: at the start of my current 5e campaign, one of the players asked for "teenage escapism" and there's been absolutely no problem giving the party that kind of experience using Rules-As-Written*. Some parts of some 5e books are "woke" but there's a perfectly playable game underneath all that, without having to invoke lots of In-My-Campaign dicta.

*: Except I always forget to give out inspiration and my players never remind me of it.
I think that's a common experience. 

I've played in 4 or 5 games of 5e and only one used inspiration.  It never even occured to me to use it personally.

Charon's Little Helper

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2021, 07:48:43 AM »
The new Baldurs Gate game seems to have come and went surprisingly fast after all the hype? Weird.

I think that's mostly because it's still in early access. Basically it's still in paid beta.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2021, 08:18:30 AM »
As I understand it (and this is cobbled together from bits and pieces so I may be wrong), one of the big lefty whines about Ringo was how the protagonist in the Paladin of Shadows was a deviant, sexually. Except that was kind of the point -- that protag was supposed to be seven degrees of fucked up anyways.

(Why lefties would complain about deviant sexual behavior is a question left to the ages...)

oggsmash

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2021, 11:11:43 AM »
Who they hire says if they are headed to woke or not.  Universities most certainly went hard in the paint on going woke for decades.  Would anyone try to argue major universities are not woke now?

I'd dispute this briefly, but it's probably more a topic for the politics forum. Short form: some parts of some universities are "woke", and they're often made obvious in the media. Throughout the '90s and '00s, when we were hearing similar claims, there were plenty of departments of American universities with strong conservative / Christian biases.

Obligatory RPG connection: at the start of my current 5e campaign, one of the players asked for "teenage escapism" and there's been absolutely no problem giving the party that kind of experience using Rules-As-Written*. Some parts of some 5e books are "woke" but there's a perfectly playable game underneath all that, without having to invoke lots of In-My-Campaign dicta.

*: Except I always forget to give out inspiration and my players never remind me of it.

   Relating as to who is being hired is not political, it is simply discussing the direction something is likely to go.  As to what happened in the 90's and now regarding higher education, well I was in college in the 90's, and there were plenty of lefties, who were open to discussion and debate of different political opinions in class.  Last fall I had a class, in a tech course, where the instructor made the statement "we dont really need any more white guys in tech" while urging the class to tell as many women and people of every flavor to go to some event promoting women and all people (except white dudes) to get into a tech career.  It is anecdotal, but this was a tech class.  The liberal arts classes I had to take the woke was pretty fucking strong. 

   As for RPGs I agree there is no need to take the woke in D&D or any other game you like.  Most games (that meet a gamers preference) have lots of good stuff they like, and something they might not like.  I stated already, it will not matter if WOTC goes all the way woke, I have all I will ever need from them, so I am not technically their customer anymore.   I just think when hiring very outspoken people who go on and on regarding their worldview, it is to be expected they are going to shoehorn that real world point of view into a fantasy world.  Maybe they dont, or wont, but for higher education...well hiring led it to where it is.  I see no reason for WOTC to not have a very similar pattern if choosing to hire people with an overbearing world view.

shuddemell

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2021, 12:56:55 PM »
I find incompetence wholly incapable of explaining things. Malice is a much better fit.

You forgot stupidity, and none of them rule the others out.

"“Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common." - Harry Dresden :P

“Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for when dealing with a stupid person than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.”

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SHARK

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Re: Woke D&D = Broke D&D: Is a Lunatic Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2021, 02:42:10 PM »
"Go Woke, Go Broke" - like any motto - will not be perfectly accurate, but it happens enough (especially over time) that it's likely to remain a popular motto.

As for D&D and RPGs, the situation is like everything else in the culture war. AKA, WotC has chosen their side and thus, alienates the other side. Other companies are following suit. Of course, this only will accelerate the wokeness as multiple companies try to compete for the left side dollars.

While WotC's total collapse would be fun, it has already happened for those on the right side of the culture war. AKA, they are no longer a viable vendor of fun. It's like RPG.net - for those who enjoy wokeness in their RPGs, that site provides them pleasure, but provides nothing for those who want their RPGs without politics.

It will be interesting to see how wokeness alters conventions in the next year. I predict the cultural divide and cultural battles will become significant issues in the public play of RPGs and other games.

In response, I give you John Ringo on "Why Cons Are Failing".

Quote
John Ringo
August 29, 2016
Moshe Feder

(Name redacted)
I have some hope after seeing Moshe Feder's comments. I was talking with the owner of a comic book store in town who has been active in fandom for a long time. He use to be involved in cons and was a Fan Guest of Honor at Dragon Con one year. He told (me) the split in fandom occurred during the Vietnam War. I started reading science fiction around the time the US involvement in Vietnam was winding down.

John Ringo

Moshe's comment actually made me angry as hell. Mostly because I knew he had a brain and I couldn't believe it had taken him this long to use it.

The split back then was specifically and pointedly quashed by both sides of fandom and pros. (Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov and Bob Tucker were all involved.)

Everyone agreed to disagree on the subject of the war but get along within fandom.

This split is different. It has been widening at least since the mid 90s and shows no signs of healing. Because both 'pro-fans' and 'pros' need to start to realize both sides have points to share. Alas, nobody on the left is willing to cede the slightest bit of ground and the right has gotten so tired of being vilified they're unwilling to even start the conversation.

I know I'm unwilling. We've tried repeatedly to 'open a dialogue' and got fucked over for it just as repeatedly. (Please see my RavenCon AAR for one example.) Pretty much we (conservative/libertarian authors/fans) are done and could give two shits what anyone thinks.

The complete absence of a huge market from various cons (all the, yes, conservative/libertarian readers who get tired of being treated like shit) is one of the many reasons lit-cons are failing. (See below.) But from the POV of the left, 'it's better to burn a village than save it.'

RL example: SheVaCon. SheVaCon was a small Virginia con that was about 500 members. The concom was pretty evenly split left/right but the 'right' side was very quiet in their views. (The Left not so much.) The 'right' side also had connections with Baen authors. (Not all right, BTW. Eric Flint is an avowed Communist.)

They started inviting Baen authors. Baen fans, many libertarian/ conservative, thus started to show up. They started doing a range day. More fans, really unaffiliated but in general more 'right wing' than the con had trended, started showing up. The con got much larger.

However, friends of the 'left' side of the concom were having to share their formerly safe-space with conservatives/ libertarians. They were encountering arguments they didn't like and we tended to be fairly rowdy. One woman even told me 'I wasn't even aware there WERE conservative fans!' (My reply was 'You know all those people who don't talk to you? Those are the conservatives.')

The Concom therefore instigated a putsch against the 'conservative' faction of the concom, pitching out all the people who had the connections with the 'wrong' fans.

Result?

The now 'cleansed' conom asked the usual authors to attend, citing all sorts of lies about the people who had been putsched (all friends of the authors who were getting both sides of the story.) The authors, more or less to a person and independently, told them to fuck off.

No big name authors, no huge attendance. Their attendance dropped 30% the year after the putsch. They dropped more the next year and then faded away.

One of the main reasons I attend as few cons as I do these days is the unending crap I take for being a known 'controversial conservative author'. (Although Larry has made such a name for himself in the arena people now consider me 'moderate.') Not to mention the absolute horse-shit I've had to listen to or the attempts to stifle me from 'speaking truth to power.' Being told 'That's not true!' about things that are verifiable facts. (And not even controversial ones.) 'That's not true... moving on...' is a tactic that was promoted by leftist ideologists a few years back and it got so old it was insane. Being told, metaphorically, to shut up and mind my manners cause I was a cis-male normative conservative and thus had no right to speak. WindyCon and RavenCon pretty much poisoned me against any con that MIGHT be the way they were in the future. And I now tell concoms of cons I don't know well, 'If I have to put up with crap, I'm walking and you can eat the costs.'

So... The spit is there, it's been there, it's getting wider mostly because people are finally starting to notice it and from my POV I could give a shit less. I have a few cons I attend and enjoy and there's no real need for me to attend cons in terms of market so I just hit those and ignore the rest. And the cons I attend, oddly enough, are the ones that are doing REALLY WELL whereas the ones which play the 'truefen' game are dying. Go figure.

At the current rate the 'truefen' cons will be relegated to a few large cities with enough population to support them and otherwise 'lit' cons will dry up and blow away. Except for the ones that DON'T play the 'truefen' game and ignore politics. Which as I pointed out to the con-chair of one that used those words exactly: 'In this day and age, 'we ignore people's politics, gender and race and only care if they're interesting and have a good time' IS a political statement.'

As for the truefen cons: The sooner they die off the better.

The MAIN reason they're dying off:

Cons are a business.

If you did a survey of all the 'big name' authors in SF you'd think that, based upon the general 'feel' of things, the most sales go to the left. And don't get me wrong, the left has some HUGE names. GRRM and Neil Gaiman come to mind. But if you grouped all the conservative/libertarian authors vs 'SJW' authors who were, say, midlist and higher, you'd find that the libertarian/conservative side would add up to more total sales. You don't see them on NYT, of course, they most definitely are NOT allowed to win a Hugo (very few Hugo winners are large sales authors) and you have to sort of dive deep into public records, but very few of the 'great' authors supported by the SJW side really sell worth a crap.

What does that have to do with fandom, you ask?

Why do people go to cons, by and large, the first time?
'There's someone there I've read.' (For litcons.)

Why do authors go to cons, by and large?

Most 'mid-list/high-list' authors don’t actually NEED cons to increase their sales. You'll pick up a fraction of a percent of your total sales in new readers at most. (Even at really big cons like DragonCon.)

Self publish obviously go to pimp/sell their books. But self publish isn't going to be a big draw.

'Big' authors only go to have a good time. They want to meet some new people, do some 'fan service' (being nice to fans), sign some books and generally hang out and enjoy the con.

They DON'T want to have a battle royale at every panel, be told to shut up, they don't have an opinion, be insulted and belittled, be told 'you can't say that'. Who does?

So as cons get certain reputations, big name cons/lib authors avoid them like the plague.

Since the majority of the 'new' attendees for any con are (based upon sales) more likely to attend one with a cons/lib author then you need to attract cons/lib authors to your con. But… Cons/lib authors aren't going to attend your con if it has the reputation of being an SJW blowjob fest. Trust me, we learn that lesson REALLY quick.

There's only three things important in any business, market, market, market. Cons are a business. (Absent having a sugar daddy to support them.)

Cons that can't attract cons/lib authors because of the climate of hatred can't maintain their attendance thus eventually dry up and blow away.

That's why cons are failing. The SJW cons are going for the noise rather than the reality, creating 'safe spaces' where they don't have to deal with mean, nasty conservatives and libertarians and generally limiting their market thereby. And it's killing them off one by one.

Good. The sooner they are gone the better. Fuck 'em all.

Greetings!

Damn, Jeff! ;D This is an excellent contribution! Very interesting, and enlightening as well.

Thank you for finding this and posting it here! Good stuff, man!

Everything that Ringo relates in this piece is spot-on. It reflects the enormous, and corrosive, damage that these fucking Marxist SJW's do to fucking everything in our society. Geesus these fucking sick tyrant bastards need to be fought against and opposed every step of the way.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"