Ok....  If WOTC dumped the entire 5.1SRD into CC, there's some good in that I suppose; but they were still assholes and bullies for creating all of this chaos, to begin with.  They only did this CC, as an attempt to plug the hole in the bottom of a sinking ship.  Nobody should ever trust them again.  They tried to make a power play on the whole RPG industry, and run their "competition" into bankruptcy.  Piss on WOTC.

They asked for this shit sandwich.  Let them eat it.

Quote from: Krazz on January 27, 2023, 04:30:38 PM
I find it telling that they said

QuoteThese live survey results are clear. You want OGL 1.0a. You want irrevocability. You like Creative Commons.

Then they go on to talk about CC stuff and keeping OGL 1.0a. What they're not doing is publishing OGL 1.0b, which should be identical to 10.a, except with an irrevocability clause. They're told us they know we want it, and the only reason I can see not to give it is that they still hope to revoke it in the future.

No, this is the best outcome. If they attempted to do an OGL 1.0b the creepy Woke weirdos would be all over them to make it more inclusive, make sure no nazis can make nazi stuff, blah, blah. That just opens a worm hole of problems.

Leave the OGL 1.0a alone. Put the stuff in CC. Wash your hands.

The only thing that could make this better is putting the 3.0 and 3.5 stuff in CC, including the Modern and Future stuff.

Quote from: thornad on January 27, 2023, 10:05:59 PM

Quote from: Krazz on January 27, 2023, 04:30:38 PM
I find it telling that they said

QuoteThese live survey results are clear. You want OGL 1.0a. You want irrevocability. You like Creative Commons.

Then they go on to talk about CC stuff and keeping OGL 1.0a. What they're not doing is publishing OGL 1.0b, which should be identical to 10.a, except with an irrevocability clause. They're told us they know we want it, and the only reason I can see not to give it is that they still hope to revoke it in the future.

No, this is the best outcome. If they attempted to do an OGL 1.0b the creepy Woke weirdos would be all over them to make it more inclusive, make sure no nazis can make nazi stuff, blah, blah. That just opens a worm hole of problems.

Leave the OGL 1.0a alone. Put the stuff in CC. Wash your hands.

The only thing that could make this better is putting the 3.0 and 3.5 stuff in CC, including the Modern and Future stuff.

It would be nice for someone with the proper time and expertise; to let Joe content writer know exactly what is open use, and what is not.  People have already gone through the wringer, canceling or rewriting projects lately.

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 27, 2023, 09:41:16 PM
Ok....  If WOTC dumped the entire 5.1SRD into CC, there's some good in that I suppose; but they were still assholes and bullies for creating all of this chaos, to begin with.  They only did this CC, as an attempt to plug the hole in the bottom of a sinking ship.  Nobody should ever trust them again.  They tried to make a power play on the whole RPG industry, and run their "competition" into bankruptcy.  Piss on WOTC.

They asked for this shit sandwich.  Let them eat it.

Not if, they did. It is done.

Bullies? Jam, bro, you sound like a bed-wetter. They own that material. Their only sin was going back on their word. And that is a big deal. But to say nobody should ever trust them again is the same type of hyperbole that you hear from the woke. Forever is a long time. New leadership, new slate.

Nobody should ever use the OGL or SRD because been there done that. There is literally nothing new or innovative being created. And if you disagree, fine. Name something.

Eh, it's probably all they can do at this point in an attempt to stem the bleeding.  Now, it's about getting as much as they can from people wanting to snatch up all the 5th edition stuff while they still can now that the threat of "their," game going away is a tangible thing.

Keep the OGL in play, etc., etc. and just go on with 6th edition after the yelling stops but have a totally different game license related to that and to cover any VTT associated with 6th.  If they want a clean break and keep all that sweet, sweet IP in-house, then don't see them having too many options.  Keep some folks plugging away at 5th ed material in the basement to hover up some dosh from time to time but otherwise let it dwindle away.

They'll be finally the kings of their diminishing castle, but it'll be theirs for as long as it lasts.

Bet that 7th edition is a re-skinned 5th edition as they (or whomever owns D&D at that point) comes back hat-in-hand saying "sorry; we're back, though!"

Quote from: FingerRod on January 27, 2023, 10:18:45 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 27, 2023, 09:41:16 PM
Ok....  If WOTC dumped the entire 5.1SRD into CC, there's some good in that I suppose; but they were still assholes and bullies for creating all of this chaos, to begin with.  They only did this CC, as an attempt to plug the hole in the bottom of a sinking ship.  Nobody should ever trust them again.  They tried to make a power play on the whole RPG industry, and run their "competition" into bankruptcy.  Piss on WOTC.

They asked for this shit sandwich.  Let them eat it.

Not if, they did. It is done.

Bullies? Jam, bro, you sound like a bed-wetter. They own that material. Their only sin was going back on their word. And that is a big deal. But to say nobody should ever trust them again is the same type of hyperbole that you hear from the woke. Forever is a long time. New leadership, new slate.

Nobody should ever use the OGL or SRD because been there done that. There is literally nothing new or innovative being created. And if you disagree, fine. Name something.

But do we have new leadership, taking them in a new direction?

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 27, 2023, 10:15:52 PM

Quote from: thornad on January 27, 2023, 10:05:59 PM

Quote from: Krazz on January 27, 2023, 04:30:38 PM
I find it telling that they said

QuoteThese live survey results are clear. You want OGL 1.0a. You want irrevocability. You like Creative Commons.

Then they go on to talk about CC stuff and keeping OGL 1.0a. What they're not doing is publishing OGL 1.0b, which should be identical to 10.a, except with an irrevocability clause. They're told us they know we want it, and the only reason I can see not to give it is that they still hope to revoke it in the future.

No, this is the best outcome. If they attempted to do an OGL 1.0b the creepy Woke weirdos would be all over them to make it more inclusive, make sure no nazis can make nazi stuff, blah, blah. That just opens a worm hole of problems.

Leave the OGL 1.0a alone. Put the stuff in CC. Wash your hands.

The only thing that could make this better is putting the 3.0 and 3.5 stuff in CC, including the Modern and Future stuff.

It would be nice for someone with the proper time and expertise; to let Joe content writer know exactly what is open use, and what is not.  People have already gone through the wringer, canceling or rewriting projects lately.

Dear Joe Content Writer:

Everything in the 5.1 SRD is open to use, forever, you can even mix stuff without putting it under the CC By, you just need to credit and specify WHAT exactly on your works IS from their SRD. For example you could use a different color or font for the text you used from their document. You DON'T have to put YOUR works under CC By.

sincerely yours Geeky Bugle

PS: Forgot to mention that ANYTHING they say it's Product Identity is not under the CC By.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 27, 2023, 10:39:43 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 27, 2023, 10:15:52 PM

Quote from: thornad on January 27, 2023, 10:05:59 PM

Quote from: Krazz on January 27, 2023, 04:30:38 PM
I find it telling that they said

QuoteThese live survey results are clear. You want OGL 1.0a. You want irrevocability. You like Creative Commons.

Then they go on to talk about CC stuff and keeping OGL 1.0a. What they're not doing is publishing OGL 1.0b, which should be identical to 10.a, except with an irrevocability clause. They're told us they know we want it, and the only reason I can see not to give it is that they still hope to revoke it in the future.

No, this is the best outcome. If they attempted to do an OGL 1.0b the creepy Woke weirdos would be all over them to make it more inclusive, make sure no nazis can make nazi stuff, blah, blah. That just opens a worm hole of problems.

Leave the OGL 1.0a alone. Put the stuff in CC. Wash your hands.

The only thing that could make this better is putting the 3.0 and 3.5 stuff in CC, including the Modern and Future stuff.

It would be nice for someone with the proper time and expertise; to let Joe content writer know exactly what is open use, and what is not.  People have already gone through the wringer, canceling or rewriting projects lately.

Dear Joe Content Writer:

Everything in the 5.1 SRD is open to use, forever, you can even mix stuff without putting it under the CC By, you just need to credit and specify WHAT exactly on your works IS from their SRD. For example you could use a different color or font for the text you used from their document. You DON'T have to put YOUR works under CC By.

sincerely yours Geeky Bugle

PS: Forgot to mention that ANYTHING they say it's Product Identity is not under the CC By.

Thank you, for your contributions during this difficult time in the RPG industry.

On unrelated news, Hasbro will fire 1000 people (15% of their workforce).

"Despite strong growth in Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming... our consumer products business underperformed in the fourth quarter against the backdrop of a challenging holiday consumer environment," CEO Chris Cocks said.

Hasbro estimated a 26% slump in revenue from its consumer products segment, compared with a 22% jump in its Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming business.

I guess that the "jump" just splatted.

https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/hasbro-cut-1000-global-full-time-jobs-2023-2023-01-26/

Quote from: Reckall on January 27, 2023, 11:06:24 PM
On unrelated news, Hasbro will fire 1000 people (15% of their workforce).

"Despite strong growth in Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming... our consumer products business underperformed in the fourth quarter against the backdrop of a challenging holiday consumer environment," CEO Chris Cocks said.

Hasbro estimated a 26% slump in revenue from its consumer products segment, compared with a 22% jump in its Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming business.

I guess that the "jump" just splatted.

https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/hasbro-cut-1000-global-full-time-jobs-2023-2023-01-26/

What a beautiful flop it is.

Quote from: Reckall on January 27, 2023, 11:06:24 PM
On unrelated news, Hasbro will fire 1000 people (15% of their workforce).

"Despite strong growth in Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming... our consumer products business underperformed in the fourth quarter against the backdrop of a challenging holiday consumer environment," CEO Chris Cocks said.

Hasbro estimated a 26% slump in revenue from its consumer products segment, compared with a 22% jump in its Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming business.

I guess that the "jump" just splatted.

https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/hasbro-cut-1000-global-full-time-jobs-2023-2023-01-26/

One has to wonder if they will follow Big Tech's example and fire the D.I.E. cultists first.

(Boss yelling over the din of the game-making floor after bad message comes through)
"What do you mean we're stepping on our dicks?"
[sheepish looks among the dick-steppers]
"Aaagghh!"

Quote from: jeff37923 on January 27, 2023, 06:20:24 PM
I like this, but I keep remembering Murphy's Laws of Combat, especially the one that says, "If your attack is going well, you have walked into an ambush."

WotC has demonstrated their intentions and this is too quick & easy a win.

That's how I'm feeling about it.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 27, 2023, 10:39:43 PM
PS: Forgot to mention that ANYTHING they say it's Product Identity is not under the CC By.

The concept of Product Identity does not exist in the CC licence, nor is it mentioned by WoTC in the CC licenced SRD -
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qGTO9fld1gqkWF3I8dPI5uY0933OxnOr/view?usp=sharing

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 27, 2023, 08:58:54 PMCC By is very different from CC0 (Public Domain) for starters you have to give credit, something you don't have to do with Public Domain (although most do).

You're right. Technically they are different.

However, WotC's action proves they're walking away from tabletop RPGs and don't care anymore what anyone does with 5e and earlier material. Any minor attribution is a formality now, and skipping that formality won't really matter to them because they and their 6e customers are "evolving" into beings of pure VTT nirvana.