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Author Topic: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)  (Read 1937 times)

Jam The MF

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2022, 12:56:49 AM »
The Pact of the Dragon of Tyr Warlock, would be very popular in 5E.
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DM_Curt

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2022, 07:59:54 AM »
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!
How would it look?
-Rules for stone and bone weapons.
-New races and subclasses, while also allowing all races and subclasses, to continue the Kitchen Sink Syndrome.
-Delete all slavery references ("Fighting against slavery is too hard, because then you have to reference slavery, and referencing slavery is bad because you are glorifying slavery so you can't fight against slavery because...<30 GOTO START>"  -NPC )
-It's all about Climate Change and Magical Pollution. Maybe Defilers are agents of magical Evil Oil Companies.

jgants

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2022, 09:14:21 AM »
I'm about halfway through a 5e campaign using Theros and have thought about a Dark Sun one myself. I'm of two minds about going the 5e route or the 2e route.

The argument for 5e is that the players are used to it and like the more modern D&D-isms such as everything using the same type of die roll and having tons of mechanical character build options. Also, as I look at Dark Sun, I can see that out of all the old settings, Dark Sun lends itself best to the "moar powerz!" approach of modern D&D. So, I started putting together some notes on what it might look like for 5e. I know other people did conversions, but I'd want to do my own interpretation because even TSR Dark Sun was only good for the first boxed set or so. I'm still working through classes and stalled out a bit.

The reason I stalled is my usual problem - I've grown to dislike modern D&D (anything from 3e on). I'm just not a fan of the new way they do spells, or hit points / healing, or all the powers / character options. Modern D&D versions stuff characters so full of powers and healing that the only kind of game they support well is a dungeon with X encounters per day which isn't always how I want to run a campaign. It's not that I can't run a less combat-focused game, it just doesn't work as well when all the players want to use all those cool combat abilities. In that sense, I prefer 4e over 5e because at least it leaned in to the whole "nothing but dungeon battles" focus. And then there's the digital tools, which I also find very limiting as a DM. The players end up relying on them to manage their characters because of all the extra character build complexity, but then I either have to do everything by the book (and almost by every book WotC produces) or I'm spending a ton of extra time and effort working against the grain to try and explain what content I'm using / not using and how to handle it when a rule or item or whatever isn't supported by the app. The app thing soured me on 4e once rules randomly changed between sessions (which they appear to want to do again for One D&D). Anyway, what it means is that my 5e version will need to be scaled back a bit and use some AD&D-isms so that I can run the game I want, and they won't need (or be able to use) the app.

So, then I moved back to looking at AD&D 2e again and seeing how I might adjust that to present the material in a way the players might go for with my own custom-written player's handbook. They'll definitely want ascending AC with attack bonuses over descending AC and THAC0. And I'll probably need to give a few more character options. But AD&D has its flaws, too. The first is that proficiencies are a fairly poor skill system (most RPGs do that better). The second is that AD&D psionics rules are dreadful. I'm still debating how I want to handle the skills/proficiencies thing but for psionics I'm just going to use the Palladium rules instead (circa original Rifts).

Once I complete the AD&D version, I think I'll go back and see if I can finish out the 5e version. Then I can compare to see if I'd prefer a more D&D 5e approach with some AD&D-isms or a more AD&D approach with some D&D 5e-isms.
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BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2022, 10:27:14 AM »
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!
How would it look?
-Rules for stone and bone weapons.
-New races and subclasses, while also allowing all races and subclasses, to continue the Kitchen Sink Syndrome.
-Delete all slavery references ("Fighting against slavery is too hard, because then you have to reference slavery, and referencing slavery is bad because you are glorifying slavery so you can't fight against slavery because...<30 GOTO START>"  -NPC )
-It's all about Climate Change and Magical Pollution. Maybe Defilers are agents of magical Evil Oil Companies.
Well, at the time Dark Sun did allow for all the races and classes in the Player’s Handbook. Saying Dragonborns, Tieflings, Ardlings, whatever aren’t appropriate because they were added in subsequent editions of the PHB is an arbitrary criticism. I think you would have a stronger argument if you said “maybe Tolkienesque races and classes, much less D&D originals, were never appropriate for Dark Sun in the first place?” I think DS should have an entirely original set of races and classes that better fits what the original designers were going for rather than shoehorning the entire PHB.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2022, 12:01:11 PM »
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!
How would it look?
-Rules for stone and bone weapons.
-New races and subclasses, while also allowing all races and subclasses, to continue the Kitchen Sink Syndrome.
-Delete all slavery references ("Fighting against slavery is too hard, because then you have to reference slavery, and referencing slavery is bad because you are glorifying slavery so you can't fight against slavery because...<30 GOTO START>"  -NPC )
-It's all about Climate Change and Magical Pollution. Maybe Defilers are agents of magical Evil Oil Companies.
Well, at the time Dark Sun did allow for all the races and classes in the Player’s Handbook. Saying Dragonborns, Tieflings, Ardlings, whatever aren’t appropriate because they were added in subsequent editions of the PHB is an arbitrary criticism. I think you would have a stronger argument if you said “maybe Tolkienesque races and classes, much less D&D originals, were never appropriate for Dark Sun in the first place?” I think DS should have an entirely original set of races and classes that better fits what the original designers were going for rather than shoehorning the entire PHB.

How do you get tieflings without access to the planes?
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VisionStorm

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2022, 12:20:42 PM »
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!
How would it look?
-Rules for stone and bone weapons.
-New races and subclasses, while also allowing all races and subclasses, to continue the Kitchen Sink Syndrome.
-Delete all slavery references ("Fighting against slavery is too hard, because then you have to reference slavery, and referencing slavery is bad because you are glorifying slavery so you can't fight against slavery because...<30 GOTO START>"  -NPC )
-It's all about Climate Change and Magical Pollution. Maybe Defilers are agents of magical Evil Oil Companies.
Well, at the time Dark Sun did allow for all the races and classes in the Player’s Handbook. Saying Dragonborns, Tieflings, Ardlings, whatever aren’t appropriate because they were added in subsequent editions of the PHB is an arbitrary criticism. I think you would have a stronger argument if you said “maybe Tolkienesque races and classes, much less D&D originals, were never appropriate for Dark Sun in the first place?” I think DS should have an entirely original set of races and classes that better fits what the original designers were going for rather than shoehorning the entire PHB.

This is incorrect. OG Dark Sun didn't allow access to Gnomes or Paladins, which were included in the PHB. And while technically not standard playable races in 2e, Orcs, Goblins, and Pixies were also explicitly mentioned in some of the source material (the novels at least, possibly some supplements) as being wiped out during the Cleaning Wars. Athas also has no direct connection any planes other than the elemental planes, so planar races other than Genasi make so sense in the setting.

Also, basically every class and races allowed from the PHB was changed and adapted to Dark Sun rather than used as is.

Tasty_Wind

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2022, 03:48:29 AM »
Aren’t Psionics a big part of Dark Sun? And 5E doesn’t have psionics? (And I can’t imagine WotC putting them back in for 1D&D)
And how has WotC handled other legacy titles like Curse Of Strahd, Spelljammer, Tomb of Annihilation, etc. ?
It’s a sad day when you would rather watch beloved titles slide into obscurity, rather than to see how the current holders would ruin it, but here we are.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2022, 03:18:33 PM »
Aren’t Psionics a big part of Dark Sun? And 5E doesn’t have psionics? (And I can’t imagine WotC putting them back in for 1D&D)
And how has WotC handled other legacy titles like Curse Of Strahd, Spelljammer, Tomb of Annihilation, etc. ?
It’s a sad day when you would rather watch beloved titles slide into obscurity, rather than to see how the current holders would ruin it, but here we are.

Yes. Dark Sun pretty much brought Psionics back into D&D 2nd ed, and there are many facets of the setting that are psionics specific, like a faction of psionics and how psionics are necessary to unlock 10th level Wizard spells.
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