Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 16, 2022, 09:22:12 AM

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 16, 2022, 08:42:31 AM
You don't even need to do that. A quick Google search will lead you to websites that provide the remastered products - with higher production values than what dtrpg is selling.  There is even a project to do Star Frontiers using Moldvay BD&D rules...

I'm curious why WotC doesn't try to revive d20 Modern so they can revive all their TSR IPs that don't fit strictly into the fantasy genre. They own Star Frontiers, Alternity, Gamma World, Amazing Engine, whatever was featured in Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and a bunch of others I can't remember now.

How in the world is WOTC who wrestles and handwrings with any type of Social and Political commentary going to make a modern game without having it being called the next coming of Satan?  They can't talk about modern countries and politics, they couldn't deal with an XFiles type game because treating aliens like enemies would be "racist" and who knows if they want to ever touch anything around Europe and Africa without the twitter crowd decrying them for depicting them as is and not the coming of Wakanada.

3rd parties are doing it better and WOTC is better to license it out so they can disavow when shit goes wrong.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 16, 2022, 09:48:03 AM
How in the world is WOTC who wrestles and handwrings with any type of Social and Political commentary going to make a modern game without having it being called the next coming of Satan?  They can't talk about modern countries and politics, they couldn't deal with an XFiles type game because treating aliens like enemies would be "racist" and who knows if they want to ever touch anything around Europe and Africa without the twitter crowd decrying them for depicting them as is and not the coming of Wakanada.

3rd parties are doing it better and WOTC is better to license it out so they can disavow when shit goes wrong.

This has truth to it but they are doing the Hasbro shareholders a disservice by sitting on the Star Frontiers and Gamma World IPs.  Mostly because idiots like nuTSR think they can just start using the IP because WotC isn't producing new content.

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 16, 2022, 08:42:31 AM

Quote from: Palleon on September 15, 2022, 09:01:02 PM

Quote from: DocJones on September 15, 2022, 08:44:24 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 15, 2022, 08:06:11 PM

Quote from: Zelen on September 15, 2022, 07:53:58 PM
Not sure why you guys are pearl clutching about this.I wouldn't trust WotC or games "journalists" to tell me the time.

Dunno whose "cluching pearls" here. Do you think the screenshots from the leaked playtest document are fake?

Is it relevant though?  It seems to be purely a trademark case.  WoTC does not sell Star Frontiers any more.  Not even thru Drive-Thru scans.
It's also pretty clear their ownership of that trademark was cancelled back in the 80's and TSR LLC owns it for both a role-playing games and card games.

The TSR trademark issue seems to be much stronger in WoTC;s favor.

I literally just bought Star Frontiers reprints for a few modules that I refuse to pay collector price for.  You may want to check your facts yourself.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/44/Wizards-of-the-Coast/subcategory/9730_29173/Star-Frontiers

You don't even need to do that. A quick Google search will lead you to websites that provide the remastered products - with higher production values than what dtrpg is selling.  There is even a project to do Star Frontiers using Moldvay BD&D rules...

Can you tell me more about the project to give Star Frontiers the Moldvay treatment? That's right up my alley.

Quote from: Palleon on September 16, 2022, 10:17:48 AM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 16, 2022, 09:48:03 AM
How in the world is WOTC who wrestles and handwrings with any type of Social and Political commentary going to make a modern game without having it being called the next coming of Satan?  They can't talk about modern countries and politics, they couldn't deal with an XFiles type game because treating aliens like enemies would be "racist" and who knows if they want to ever touch anything around Europe and Africa without the twitter crowd decrying them for depicting them as is and not the coming of Wakanada.

3rd parties are doing it better and WOTC is better to license it out so they can disavow when shit goes wrong.

This has truth to it but they are doing the Hasbro shareholders a disservice by sitting on the Star Frontiers and Gamma World IPs.  Mostly because idiots like nuTSR think they can just start using the IP because WotC isn't producing new content.

Well, Sasquatch Game Studio LLC snatched up the Alternity trademark because WotC wasn't using it. Unless WotC is actively using the trademarks then those lapse and they can't prevent others from snatching them because of how trademark law works.

So somebody could easily snatch up the other trademarks WotC isn't using. Like Star Frontiers and Gamma World. Hint hint.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 16, 2022, 11:00:01 AM

Quote from: Palleon on September 16, 2022, 10:17:48 AM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 16, 2022, 09:48:03 AM
How in the world is WOTC who wrestles and handwrings with any type of Social and Political commentary going to make a modern game without having it being called the next coming of Satan?  They can't talk about modern countries and politics, they couldn't deal with an XFiles type game because treating aliens like enemies would be "racist" and who knows if they want to ever touch anything around Europe and Africa without the twitter crowd decrying them for depicting them as is and not the coming of Wakanada.

3rd parties are doing it better and WOTC is better to license it out so they can disavow when shit goes wrong.

This has truth to it but they are doing the Hasbro shareholders a disservice by sitting on the Star Frontiers and Gamma World IPs.  Mostly because idiots like nuTSR think they can just start using the IP because WotC isn't producing new content.

Well, Sasquatch Game Studio LLC snatched up the Alternity trademark because WotC wasn't using it. Unless WotC is actively using the trademarks then those lapse and they can't prevent others from snatching them because of how trademark law works.

So somebody could easily snatch up the other trademarks WotC isn't using. Like Star Frontiers and Gamma World. Hint hint.

Ah... but they are using them via PoD and PDF on DriveThru sales since before nuTSR was formed.

Quote from: Palleon on September 16, 2022, 11:06:44 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 16, 2022, 11:00:01 AM

Quote from: Palleon on September 16, 2022, 10:17:48 AM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 16, 2022, 09:48:03 AM
How in the world is WOTC who wrestles and handwrings with any type of Social and Political commentary going to make a modern game without having it being called the next coming of Satan?  They can't talk about modern countries and politics, they couldn't deal with an XFiles type game because treating aliens like enemies would be "racist" and who knows if they want to ever touch anything around Europe and Africa without the twitter crowd decrying them for depicting them as is and not the coming of Wakanada.

3rd parties are doing it better and WOTC is better to license it out so they can disavow when shit goes wrong.

This has truth to it but they are doing the Hasbro shareholders a disservice by sitting on the Star Frontiers and Gamma World IPs.  Mostly because idiots like nuTSR think they can just start using the IP because WotC isn't producing new content.

Well, Sasquatch Game Studio LLC snatched up the Alternity trademark because WotC wasn't using it. Unless WotC is actively using the trademarks then those lapse and they can't prevent others from snatching them because of how trademark law works.

So somebody could easily snatch up the other trademarks WotC isn't using. Like Star Frontiers and Gamma World. Hint hint.

Ah... but they are using them via PoD and PDF on DriveThru sales since before nuTSR was formed.

WotC were selling Alternity ebooks and that didn't stop Sasquatch from taking the trademark. Also, letting people buy low quality electronic copies of decades old books probably doesn't count toward preventing trademark lapse. Otherwise ebook stores could be abused to maintain trademark for centuries without ever releasing a new book. You have to continuously use the trademark to keep it alive. Continuously re-releasing one product doesn't count, otherwise Hasbro could maintain their trademarks indefinitely by re-releasing a single copy of the same toy every few years.

So WotC has to continuously produce new books to maintain their trademarks. Otherwise Sasquatch couldn't have snatched the trademark. WotC lost the opportunity to maintain their trademark and they can't get it back unless nuTSR loses control of it. Hence this lawsuit.

Quote from: Palleon on September 16, 2022, 07:17:48 AM
What are you even talking about?  Both Alpha Dawn and Knight Hawks rules are in the list of products available.

I stand corrected.   My ability to search for items on DriveThru is oathetic.

Quote from: DocJones on September 16, 2022, 01:27:37 PM

Quote from: Palleon on September 16, 2022, 07:17:48 AM
What are you even talking about?  Both Alpha Dawn and Knight Hawks rules are in the list of products available.

I stand corrected.   My ability to search for items on DriveThru is oathetic.

It's normal. People incorrectly say products are/aren't available on DriveThru all the time and it's annoying. That's partly why I wanted to make original rpgs in the first place: all the ones I liked aren't available digitally anymore and jfc the high seas are more trouble than they're worth. Fuck the corpos!

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 16, 2022, 09:22:12 AM
I'm curious why WotC doesn't try to revive d20 Modern so they can revive all their TSR IPs that don't fit strictly into the fantasy genre.

Now that you  mention it, I'm surprised they didn't convert all these games to d20 Modern back in the 3.5 era.

Quote from: wmarshal on September 16, 2022, 10:58:03 AM

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 16, 2022, 08:42:31 AM

Quote from: Palleon on September 15, 2022, 09:01:02 PM

Quote from: DocJones on September 15, 2022, 08:44:24 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 15, 2022, 08:06:11 PM

Quote from: Zelen on September 15, 2022, 07:53:58 PM
Not sure why you guys are pearl clutching about this.I wouldn't trust WotC or games "journalists" to tell me the time.

Dunno whose "cluching pearls" here. Do you think the screenshots from the leaked playtest document are fake?

Is it relevant though?  It seems to be purely a trademark case.  WoTC does not sell Star Frontiers any more.  Not even thru Drive-Thru scans.
It's also pretty clear their ownership of that trademark was cancelled back in the 80's and TSR LLC owns it for both a role-playing games and card games.

The TSR trademark issue seems to be much stronger in WoTC;s favor.

I literally just bought Star Frontiers reprints for a few modules that I refuse to pay collector price for.  You may want to check your facts yourself.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/44/Wizards-of-the-Coast/subcategory/9730_29173/Star-Frontiers

You don't even need to do that. A quick Google search will lead you to websites that provide the remastered products - with higher production values than what dtrpg is selling.  There is even a project to do Star Frontiers using Moldvay BD&D rules...

Can you tell me more about the project to give Star Frontiers the Moldvay treatment? That's right up my alley.

Don't know much about it other than seeing it as a category here:

https://starfrontiers.us/Projects/Lite?project=10571

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 16, 2022, 09:22:12 AM

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 16, 2022, 08:42:31 AM
You don't even need to do that. A quick Google search will lead you to websites that provide the remastered products - with higher production values than what dtrpg is selling.  There is even a project to do Star Frontiers using Moldvay BD&D rules...

I'm curious why WotC doesn't try to revive d20 Modern so they can revive all their TSR IPs that don't fit strictly into the fantasy genre. They own Star Frontiers, Alternity, Gamma World, Amazing Engine, whatever was featured in Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and a bunch of others I can't remember now.

Let's all just recognize that d20 modern sucked. It was so completely bland and devoid of inspiration.

The only game I liked that used d20 besides 3.0 D&D was Spycraft.  T20 Traveller was just ok. 

Quote from: Ruprecht on September 16, 2022, 01:56:26 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 16, 2022, 09:22:12 AM
I'm curious why WotC doesn't try to revive d20 Modern so they can revive all their TSR IPs that don't fit strictly into the fantasy genre.

Now that you  mention it, I'm surprised they didn't convert all these games to d20 Modern back in the 3.5 era.

A number of them did get converted. Star Frontiers (as "Star Law"), Star*Drive and Bug Hunters appeared as mini-settings in d20 Future. Gamma World got a d20 edition with several books (although the backstory was retconned to involve nanomachines and genetic engineering instead of nuclear war). Dark•Matter got its own book under d20 Modern. There's also plenty of d20 Modern/Future/Past settings that only appeared in the d20 books or Dragon/Dungeon/Polyhedron magazine, like Iron Lords of Jupiter (a planetary romance/sword & planet setting), one that was basically Josie & the Pussycats/Jem & the Holograms, GeneTech, Mecha Crusade, etc. Much like how Amazing Engine and Alternity before it tried to compete with GURPS and Traveller, d20 Modern tried to do the same.

I loved all of it but could never get a group together

I don't know much about this, but I do wonder if anyone would tolerate Hasbro nuking a smaller developer if said smaller developer wasn't doing this crap.  On imgur they had some thread about how WotC "had to" sue them.  Do they have a solid case, or is this just something that the courts will go along with because nuTSR decided to put a bunch of racism in an unpublished product?

WotC had to sue nuTSR, if they want to continue to distribute reprint and digital copies of the old stuff, or intend to start developing it again.  Corporations almost never let their IP go without someone paying for the rights.

Are you sure?  nuTSR has laid claim to the TSR brand and the Star Frontiers brand for years now, and Hasbro is suing them explicitly citing the "racist and transphobic" content.  Why was it ok for them to be called TSR for years but suddenly now there's a lawsuit?