QuoteDo you not even see the moralizing attached to your terms?

"oversexualization"

How absolutely puritanical.

You say moralizing, like morality is not crucial thing for social order and basic for any society
Everyone is moralizing - including you with your libertarian morality pushed in this response. Duh.

QuoteCreate competing ideas and see if they win or lose...

Political violence against opponents is also "competing idea"? You say it's not fair game one. Well fair game is also idea, and you can reject it.

QuoteProof's in the pudding, too. Look at the reception Kingdom Come: Deliverance got for being a reasonably realistic depiction of medieval Bohemia.

No, 'realism' is just one more club for the proggy vermin to swing.

Indeed. Luckily progressive ideologists quite often, though not always fail apart and reveal themselves as raging hypocrites, when they themselves love to spin lewd colourful fantasies, just, pardon my french, not cishet ones with standard beauty.

QuoteIt would not have worked for something like "Kingdom Come: Deliverance" or "The Witcher". Generally, the intentionally absurd insertion of anachronistic elements works for comedic genres, not so much for others.

Considering how postmodern Witcher is in general attitude (like all this very XX-century talk about genetics, recessive genes and so on... and considering how advanced is dwarven bank system there, I'd say at least life insurances are totally possible in Witcher world.

Quote from: Wrath of God on January 07, 2022, 06:42:48 PM
You say moralizing, like morality is not crucial thing for social order and basic for any society
Everyone is moralizing - including you with your libertarian morality pushed in this response. Duh.

Yes the oh'so libertarian 'morality' of "Don't come into a space and demand everything change". Yes this is a RADICAL moral stance. Give me a break. Honestly. "Everything is moralizing, you guys! Plz ignore that this utterly invalidates the weight of the entire concept"

If "everything" is "something" then "something" loses actual relevance.

His entire argument was coached in terms of "This is bad and you are bad for liking it. Change it to my morally superior choice"

It's absurd. MY argument is "I want both people to be able to have what they want if someone wants something different"

If you think the latter is more heavily crowded in moral arguments, well I'd suggest taking up some BASIC education on how philosophical discussion and general argumentation works. I did not say "YOU ARE BAD for wanting this thing". In fact, the ONLY thing I said was bad was trying to TAKE something from other people.

Also you don't seem to understand the difference between 'morality' and 'moralizing'. I'd suggest you do a simple dictionary search for what MORALIZING is because it has some baked in meaning.

Quote
Political violence against opponents is also "competing idea"? You say it's not fair game one. Well fair game is also idea, and you can reject it.

"Guys guys guys! I JUST discovered moral relativism and worthless circular rhetoric! Look at me! Look at me!"

Congrats, you've managed to reach the level of pre-middle school debate class.

Good for you?

Let me know when you reach the level of "Yeah but like an idea is just the idea of an idea, man".

The notion that you spin "Let two products compete in the market" to "Hurr hurr but like murdering people or not murdering people are competing ideas too" in a way totally divorced from basic economic principles is...that's something, man. I'm not sure what the diagnosis would be...but it's something

Quote
Indeed. Luckily progressive ideologists quite often, though not always fail apart and reveal themselves as raging hypocrites, when they themselves love to spin lewd colourful fantasies, just, pardon my french, not cishet ones with standard beauty.

Of course, because their entire world-view is wrapped up in hypocrisy and double-think (like most self-destructive cult-think).

Quote from: Wulfhelm on January 07, 2022, 04:17:42 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 07, 2022, 11:28:44 AMThat's what I thought... This 'man-child' isn't worth pissing on. All his arguments are the typical sludge put forward by the same woke scold crew and are always bereft of logic.

Well, what I thought is that you people lack a bit of class.

Prince Andrew, is that you?

Quote from: Gog to MagogLots of angry rambling

And...? I don't have a problem with your stance per se. I have a problem with throwing accussation of moralising, like it's something per se bad, and like it's something you're not doing. Plot twist: you are. Just because your vision of morality is way more liberal does not change it. And it's ok. As great nihilist once said: "Look, as sentient meat, however illusory our identities are, we craft those identities by making value judgments: everybody judges, all the time. Now, you got a problem with that... You're livin' wrong."

Just tell this philistine his believes about clothes are dumb, and not accuse him about something... everybody does.

Quote from: Wrath of God on January 07, 2022, 09:59:23 PM

Quote from: Gog to MagogLots of angry rambling

And...? I don't have a problem with your stance per se. I have a problem with throwing accussation of moralising, like it's something per se bad, and like it's something you're not doing. Plot twist: you are. Just because your vision of morality is way more liberal does not change it. And it's ok. As great nihilist once said: "Look, as sentient meat, however illusory our identities are, we craft those identities by making value judgments: everybody judges, all the time. Now, you got a problem with that... You're livin' wrong."

Just tell this philistine his believes about clothes are dumb, and not accuse him about something... everybody does.

Here I'll help you out...

Moralizing - the action of commenting on issues of right and wrong, typically with an unfounded air of superiority.

There's a difference in speaking in moral terms and "moralizing". I chose my words for a reason and even pointed this out.

He COULD have said "Hey I'd also like there to be this thing" or "I think this will attract more customers" or any number of other options but INSTEAD he opted to moralize and state someone else's tastes were "oversexualizing" (thereby attaching moral stigma to it) in a way that is totally without merit since he himself would not be willing to accept the same argument of "oversexualization" for his own tastes from someone with a stronger stance on such things.

Ergo he is speaking on moral matters with unearned, inconsistent superiority. Moralizing.

That is markedly different from someone saying "Here is my consistent moral outlook on the matter where I do not demonize nor chastise someone and instead encourage multiple viewpoints to co-exist if possible"

Or, by all means, explain how someone saying "Change this thing you have because it is bad and I want it to be different" is identical to "I don't want anyone to change anything but encourage people to support what they like or even create what they like" on the grounds of moralizing (which has now been defined for you since you don't seem to have bothered to look it up)

Quote from: Abraxus on January 06, 2022, 09:51:23 AM
As for allowing kids in the hobby I am all for it.  Just don't expect to go to existing tables and tell them to change their styles of gaming at the table as they usually won't. With them telling him to look elsewhere. Or they find a tailor made game for a younger audience.

You missed here a few years back when some of the resident SJW nuts on this fora were advocating that all GMs should be required to pass a background check... Because... "Think of the Children!!!"

Others calling for RPGs to be cleaned up so... "People will respect us!!!" which is the age old excuse the prude patrol uses to try and enforce rampant censorship. Oft in tandem with "Think of the Children!!!"

Quote from: dkabq on January 06, 2022, 03:21:57 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on January 06, 2022, 03:18:29 PM
Holy hell. I would play that coffee shop adventure on one condition: My PC is a halfling farmer named Juan from wherever the fuck coffee (really?) is grown in that world. Only I'm not the typical bumpkin; I'm a deranged knife-fighter who's been stiffed on his coffee bean payments one time too many. I walk in, see my portrait hanging on the wall with all the other fair-trade hipster bullshit, and snap. I slaughter every living soul in the place and then set it on fire.

I have a single friend that I keep trying to convince to close the deal with the baristas that flirt with him. He is reticent, as he does not want a bad falling out to keep us from going to a given coffee shop. Now he can smash baristas with no impact on our coffee consumption.

But according to the SJWs and BGG nuts.
Burning down the barista in a game is promoting REAL murder.

You Monster! 

Quote from: Thornhammer on January 06, 2022, 04:22:08 PM
I suppose there's no wrong way to have fun, but damn is that not my idea of fun.

This is sadly not anything new really. Just an outgrowth of the sort of session disruption that starts off with some jackass player in the group upon their level 1 character inheriting a magic sword at the start of a campaign smugly declares "I sell the sword, buy a farm, and retire."

This coffee shop thing smacks of Acquisitions Incorporated which is supposedly "funny" but succeeds in being anything but.

Running a business in a game can be fun. Yet now-a-days we see products that are not. Because the goal is to suck every drop of fun out of RPGs.

This is not like "Rat on a Stick" where the PCs can open up a fantasy fast food franchise for monsters. And yes that is a real module from way the hell back by Judges Guild.

Quote from: palaeomerus on January 06, 2022, 08:46:24 PM
Someone should make an ironic rpg where the narrative of the setting is based in uncomfortable seeming jargon and EXTREMELY unreliable to the point where a reader cannot honestly conclude that anything in the game apart from raw mechanics is on the level or based in any verifiable reality. Everything is a distortion or willful misunderstanding and the conglomeration of this shows MANY troubling inconsistencies.

Katalyka 

Quote from: Gog to Magog on January 07, 2022, 09:14:28 AM
"Oh but much realism..."

"Okay so you're suddenly going to say a blind swordsman shouldn't be viable? And of course you're railing against the wheel-chair adventurer because 'muh realism'... Oh and all the stylized clothing HAS to go, right? And leather armor? LEATHER? That's not realistic. Jettison it. All that crazy hair color and improbable adventures these adventurers are having? THAT doesn't seem too realistic either... Oh speaking of armor why not speak of weaponry? Those oversized swords with accoutrements or fighting unarmed against armed & armored opponents? SO LONG TO ALL THAT! Right??"

And, naturally, no no no...that can all stay because "vague fantasy reasons that allow that to happen because I want it in but that thing you want that is straight-out because muh realism"

It's just such transparent bullshit.

Exactly all this for a time was infesting LARPs with the "Thoku" movement.
Handicapped players? Nope. Verboten as Glasses are unrealistic. Only the pretty people can play.
Clothing? Most colours are verboten as that is unrealistic. Except for those special people that can.
Armour? ditto.
and on down the line to the point that they got their realism and real blood and injuries. Which was really the goal. "Its not real till you bleed!!!"

All the while spitting on any other style or concerns of safety.

Quote from: Omega on January 08, 2022, 12:39:18 AM
Exactly all this for a time was infesting LARPs with the "Thoku" movement.
Handicapped players? Nope. Verboten as Glasses are unrealistic. Only the pretty people can play.
Clothing? Most colours are verboten as that is unrealistic. Except for those special people that can.
Armour? ditto.
and on down the line to the point that they got their realism and real blood and injuries. Which was really the goal. "Its not real till you bleed!!!"

All the while spitting on any other style or concerns of safety.

Wow that is some legit insanity. I had never heard of that before. I've only ever been to LARP once and it was a VtM LARP I was tangentially invited to which was just a bunch of awkward people around an inner clique of game runners that just wanted everything to basically revolve around them. I spent the night just getting people to argue by rumor-mongering because they were all really credulous and bad at social interactions. So at least that was kind of funny

What you're describing sounds...crazy to a whole other level. I will have to look that up

Quote from: Slambo on January 07, 2022, 09:35:42 AM

Quote from: fixable on January 07, 2022, 03:23:34 AM

Quote from: Gog to Magog on January 06, 2022, 01:05:20 AM

Quote from: fixable on January 05, 2022, 03:28:32 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on January 05, 2022, 03:24:42 AM

Quote from: fixable on January 05, 2022, 03:13:47 AM
I mostly play with women and they like playing attractive characters that are dressed less like sex objects and more like actual female adventurers.

That does not sound very realistic.

Yeah sure. It doesn't sound realistic for female gamers to visualize themselves as female adventurers. All women want to be chainmail bikini clad vixens. Right whatever you say. What do you know about the people I game with?

My wife that has been playing since she was a teen has explicitly only ever wanted to play 'sexy' characters even going as far as to prefer to play non-armor clad ones so the art she can find for them can be sexier.

She prefers art that is more overtly stylized, sexualized, idealized and unrealistic. She likes bare chested Conan and barely-clad girl. She likes cleavage & skirt-armor.

She's been playing this game longer than the tourists infesting the space now demanding it be changed to their mercurial, impossible-to-please tastes so that they can then immediately move on to whatever pop culture tells them is popular...

...I value her opinion more.

Ok fair enough. But that's a personal taste that is not necessarily shared by others.

Its cool that your wife prefers that style, but why would she or you be offended if the art style changes for those who don't prefer it? You value her opinion more and of course that should be without question. But there are other people who have different opinions.

I value my friends' opinions over yours; and none of my friends, male or female, are cool with oversexualiztion of women in the game. Why is your opinion more important than mine or my own friends?

Edit: again it is cool you and yours dig chain mail bikini's but why are there aspersions cast against those who don't?

Are you stupid? You came in here cssting aspersions at people who like chainmail bikinis.

And tbh i doubt you have friends.

You keep asking like your personal choice is right then when anyone contradicts you you go "well thats just your opinion"

Seriously im scared if you do have a daughter considering most of you male feminist tyoes end up being sexual predators.

wow. good one. you are pretty much irredeemable at this point. I mean you are calling me a sexual predator based on nothing more that you don't like what I have to say. Ok cool good one. I'd report you but I got the feeling that admins of this message board would champion you on for that. But I will take that as a win. I win the argument since you have to resort to ad hominem attacks against me.

So there you go. You lost and you also revealed how deplorable you are at the same time. Why can't you actually engage me with logic instead of these attacks? I mean it can't be that hard, right?

Quote from: fixable on January 08, 2022, 03:24:05 AMI win the argument since you have to resort to ad hominem attacks against me.

And you came in arms swinging in terms of your own box of logical phalacies. If you didn't start off making demands and insinuations, maybe people wouldn't throw insults your way.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 08, 2022, 03:41:54 AM

Quote from: fixable on January 08, 2022, 03:24:05 AMI win the argument since you have to resort to ad hominem attacks against me.

And you came in arms swinging in terms of your own box of logical phalacies. If you didn't start off making demands and insinuations, maybe people wouldn't throw insults your way.

I'm not the one calling me a sexual predator. Lol. It is spelled 'fallacies' by the way. What demands did I make? Like to demand to treat people equally? I guess if that is such an egregious act here then yeah I guess I'll be willing to take the consequences.

But what do I do. Run away and hide? Would you do the same if someone challenged your beliefs? I'm not going anywhere. You think you are right, I think you are wrong. Short of banning me I won't back down.

Got some real Kung Pow vibes here: "I'm bleeding, making me the victor."