Quote from: fixable on December 30, 2021, 02:49:32 AMIt is about considering women equal in terms of marketing and maybe relegating women in game art to being nothing but sex objects is not a great way to go about that.

Time to stop being a colossal dumbfuck and pick up a copy of Vogue, or any other women's fashion magazine and learn how WOMEN MARKET TO WOMEN and how WOMEN respond to sexual marketing.

Hint: Women spend a HUGE portion of their income in the grand and mighty hope to be looked upon with lust by men.

Lust. Not respect. Not admiration. Pure animal lust is the goal.

Quote from: fixable on December 30, 2021, 02:49:32 AMI'm going to bring my daughter into the RPG fold but not if she's just going to be a sex object for some basement dwellers.

THIS is pure comedy gold.

Do you not remember high school? Early 20s? Anytime past puberty?

ProTip: Boys like girls. And want to fuck them.

Advanced ProTip: Girls like boys. And want to fuck them.

Wow the asshole actually tried to use his own daughter as a club to beat his cartoonish stereotype of the bad-thinks with. That was supposed to be some moving powerful signal of his innate decency and right to set agendas for others when discussing rolling dice and killing orcs and opening chests. What a ridiculous fucking clown.

Quote from: fixable on December 30, 2021, 02:49:32 AM
Well the audience for fantasy has grown up. We aren't teenagers anymore who are drooling over chainmail bikinis. That nonsense is over. It's not about power or control its about growing up and being adults about this. It is about considering women equal in terms of marketing and maybe relegating women in game art to being nothing but sex objects is not a great way to go about that.

Too old to enjoy chainmail bikinis?! Never!!!!

It's a game, not a fucking sociology paper. Plenty of women who play these games enjoy the titillating bits, too. Why do you think the chainmail bikini babe always has a well-oiled beefy dude nearby? Like, have you never seen the cover of a romance novel? "But one is objectification and the other is not!!!" LOL. That's an obvious double standard worthy of ridicule. You seem like the typical prude who thinks that women should suppress their sexuality, and therefore so should men.

Wasn't there a game that sold a female-only version where all the art was of women? Apparently it didn't sell well. Apparently women gamers don't just want to look at other women. Whoda thunk it!? (removed because I'm wrong about this)

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 30, 2021, 11:28:28 AM

Quote from: fixable on December 30, 2021, 02:49:32 AM
Well the audience for fantasy has grown up. We aren't teenagers anymore who are drooling over chainmail bikinis. That nonsense is over. It's not about power or control its about growing up and being adults about this. It is about considering women equal in terms of marketing and maybe relegating women in game art to being nothing but sex objects is not a great way to go about that.

Too old to enjoy chainmail bikinis?! Never!!!!

It's a game, not a fucking sociology paper. Plenty of women who play these games enjoy the titillating bits, too. Why do you think the chainmail bikini babe always has a well-oiled beefy dude nearby? Like, have you never seen the cover of a romance novel? "But one is objectification and the other is not!!!" LOL. That's an obvious double standard worthy of ridicule. You seem like the typical prude who thinks that women should suppress their sexuality, and therefore so should men.

Wasn't there a game that sold a female-only version where all the art was of women? Apparently it didn't sell well. Apparently women gamers don't just want to look at other women. Whoda thunk it!?

I play mostly with women, and you are right, they like playing attractive characters.

Also it was Swords and Wizardry and iirc it wasnt all women in the book it was all the art inside was done by women.

Quote from: Slambo on December 30, 2021, 11:52:23 AM
Also it was Swords and Wizardry and iirc it wasnt all women in the book it was all the art inside was done by women.

Yup.  Internally, the book layout and art is fine.  Several of the internal pieces are better than the ones in the Otis cover.  The whatever the hell that paint spew on the cover was supposed to be killed that printing.

My bad. I have not seen this product, just heard about it. Thanks for the correction.

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 30, 2021, 11:28:28 AM

Quote from: fixable on December 30, 2021, 02:49:32 AM
Well the audience for fantasy has grown up. We aren't teenagers anymore who are drooling over chainmail bikinis. That nonsense is over. It's not about power or control its about growing up and being adults about this. It is about considering women equal in terms of marketing and maybe relegating women in game art to being nothing but sex objects is not a great way to go about that.

Too old to enjoy chainmail bikinis?! Never!!!!

It's a game, not a fucking sociology paper. Plenty of women who play these games enjoy the titillating bits, too.

People never think about how taking a shit on cheesecake is taking a shit on bisexual and lesbians in the hobby who happen to like that stuff as well as the straight dudes.

If a company doesn't want to put that stuff in, that's their perogative. But any time they flap their lips about how it's problematic, then I think they're fair game for a round of mockery.

Quote from: Palleon on December 30, 2021, 12:07:36 PM

Quote from: Slambo on December 30, 2021, 11:52:23 AM
Also it was Swords and Wizardry and iirc it wasnt all women in the book it was all the art inside was done by women.

Yup.  Internally, the book layout and art is fine.  Several of the internal pieces are better than the ones in the Otis cover.  The whatever the hell that paint spew on the cover was supposed to be killed that printing.

Yeah it was an awful cover. The big blue Avatar Aang lookin' thing is one of my favorite covers for any game so i may be biased.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2021, 12:22:16 PM
People never think about how taking a shit on cheesecake is taking a shit on bisexual and lesbians in the hobby who happen to like that stuff as well as the straight dudes.

The women I know who like Red Sonja type art tend to be straight women who want to *be* Red Sonja, just like guys want to be Conan. I don't really recall any female bisexual or lesbian players who liked cheesecake, at least not as a lust object. All of them who liked that kind of stuff, wanted to *be* the depicted character, not shag her. But definite-lesbian players tend IME to like characters more like https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/pathfinder/images/2/24/Seelah.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20080602015933 - or Xena at the most.

The main difference I noticed between men and women is that women have no interest in 'damsel in distress' type characters, they like their NPC sidekicks/lovers like Gabrielle, or a male version of Gabrielle - spunky and not helpless. But men and women enjoy playing Red Sonja type PCs at roughly the same rate.

Quote from: fixable on December 03, 2021, 03:32:20 AM
Its funny that you are on this campaign against an edition you actually helped build (you're a consultant on 5e right?) But I guess you eat your own and you turncoat when needed. As you are a part of the outrage brigade. Like OMG they use 'they/them' pronouns... its the END OF THE WORLD... omg.

Year or 3 ago WOTC used Fox's smear campaign against Zack to remove all the consultants names from all future printings of 5e. Even the Basic PDFs no longer have them credited. WOTC fired the first shot in this case. This among the numerous other stunts WOTC has pulled with the IP along the way.

The prude patrol will never stop hallucinating new things to be offended about and then demand its removal.

If everyone were covered head to toe in featureless burlap sacks theyd STILL find it offensive, pornographic and so on ad nausium.

Quote from: Omega on December 31, 2021, 12:20:14 AM
The prude patrol will never stop hallucinating new things to be offended about and then demand its removal.

If everyone were covered head to toe in featureless burlap sacks theyd STILL find it offensive, pornographic and so on ad nausium.

It's hillarious to me that all the leftists who back in the day would have been bitching about the church moms burning their books are now the ones running around figuratively burning books.  Even worse they try to blacklist folks because that's all communists are good for -- making blacklists.

Quote from: KingCheops on December 31, 2021, 03:45:30 PM

Quote from: Omega on December 31, 2021, 12:20:14 AM
The prude patrol will never stop hallucinating new things to be offended about and then demand its removal.

If everyone were covered head to toe in featureless burlap sacks theyd STILL find it offensive, pornographic and so on ad nausium.

It's hillarious to me that all the leftists who back in the day would have been bitching about the church moms burning their books are now the ones running around figuratively burning books.  Even worse they try to blacklist folks because that's all communists are good for -- making blacklists.

I think its the other way actually, they'd be right with them burning books. They just want to hate whats socially acceptable to hate.

QuoteAre they wrong to want a game that appeals to them? Is D&D something that is owned by a specific demographic? Do you own D&D? Do you have sole dictate on what D&D should be? If people want to play the game differently than how you would play it, should they be met with this hostility?

QuoteIts not about anything you stated. I guess it is a certain incredulity in that I fail to see the significance of any of this and there has been no real conclusive and factual arguments that make this thread anything more than a bunch of old grognards getting mad that 'game they don't even like' is supporting 'people they hate'.

That's kinda terrible strawman. If it was just about OP or drama playstyles, or changes in mechanics, all would be matter of usual internet bickering.
But it is not, because it's Woke side that's trying to push all people not applying to their standards of progressiveness back out of hobby, and it influences life of people wanting to be engaged more than their 30-years old faithful basement group quite profoundly.

QuoteWell it works both ways. Those who are so beholden to tradition and the past need to accept that the world is a different place.

No not really.

QuoteThe demographics of who is interested in playing D&D are different now than then they were in the 70's and 80's.

Which is not really the point or problem.

QuoteWell the audience for fantasy has grown up. We aren't teenagers anymore who are drooling over chainmail bikinis. That nonsense is over. It's not about power or control its about growing up and being adults about this. It is about considering women equal in terms of marketing and maybe relegating women in game art to being nothing but sex objects is not a great way to go about that.

Only not becasue audience for fantasy is mostly still teenager and young adults, grognards if anything are nostalgic about chainmail bikinies (which honestly were more ocassional joke, than real fantasy trend). And this young audience is just as horny, only in less cis-het way, so be prerpared for even more insanity.

QuoteBut you may be fine with it... good for you. I'm going to bring my daughter into the RPG fold but not if she's just going to be a sex object for some basement dwellers.

You now in normal circumstances it's kids choosing with whatever bunch of asocial misfitis starts discovering RPGs, not their dads bringing them to RPG as long as it suits their preconcieved notions. For guy who talked all about new generation you seems to be more stuck into 50s.

QuoteSounds like you are mostly talking out of your ass. My point is that a group has no right to determine what is offensive for another. If a person whom you would label as woke is offended by something, they have every right to be offended. You don't get to state..."You are just a woke moron, stop being offended". You don't have authority over another person to tell them what they should believe or feel.

And they had not right to demand group shares or accepts this outrage/being offended. Which is what wokesters loudly demands on every step.

QuoteThe main difference I noticed between men and women is that women have no interest in 'damsel in distress' type characters, they like their NPC sidekicks/lovers like Gabrielle, or a male version of Gabrielle - spunky and not helpless. But men and women enjoy playing Red Sonja type PCs at roughly the same rate.

And guys in your experience does? I mean I played mostly with one group for most of my life, so I have little statistic knowledge, but definitely useful sidekicks were generally demanded by them... not damsels. From gameplay perspective damsel seems to be sort of unisexually - very very annoying type of NPC to interact on regular basis.

Quote from: Wrath of God on January 04, 2022, 01:31:01 PMOnly not becasue audience for fantasy is mostly still teenager and young adults, grognards if anything are nostalgic about chainmail bikinies (which honestly were more ocassional joke, than real fantasy trend). And this young audience is just as horny, only in less cis-het way, so be prerpared for even more insanity.

Im reminded when going to my barnes & nobles that the manga section (which has overtaken comics ten fold) is filled with things like 'My roomate is a big boobed cat lady?'.

They will applaud 'maturity' in public, but in private buy 'My trip into town got me a harpy vampire girlfriend?'