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Author Topic: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision  (Read 7402 times)

Chris24601

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2021, 12:33:26 PM »
There's a petition to try to convince WoTC to convert all measurement in the next edition into metric:
https://www.change.org/p/wizards-of-the-coast-please-consider-a-metric-system-version-for-dungeons-dragons-5-5-6th-edition

ROFL

Unless I am reading it wrong, it seems they only thing being requested is the same level of support for the metric system WotC has provided for 5e. I don’t think that request is out of bounds at all.

However, like a lot of change.org, choosing this platform with this approach is laughable, which is where I think you were going with this. There are many ways this request could me made, including…I don’t know…waiting to see a product roadmap, AMA, or maybe wait more than 20 minutes after the announcement to start mobilizing the next quest.

Just looking at the names, the signees are probably more likely to listen to Hasslehoff than Creed, so I can understand the importance of having the metric system version. Of course this way, they get to be a pseudo-activist, so erection achieved I suppose.

As a Mexican the imperial system sucks monkey balls. That being said since I'm not having to do much math with it I can happily ignore it's suckiness.

As a global megacorp, it surprizes me Hasbro hasn't made WotC include a conversion table for easy use, but then again, maybe their main market doesn't use the metric system in their everyday life?

Agreed that this is inactivism at it's finest.
As an American I find metric system sucks because it’s base units aren’t intuitive but are based on arbitrary units like an arc second of the Earth’s average circumference.

Imperial is based on humanistic units; a foot is about the length of a person’s foot, an inch is about the length of a finger joint, a yard is about the span of one arm to your chest, the mile (derived from the Roman mille pacum) is 1000 paces (2000 steps). What they lack in easy division by 10 (which makes it useful for science), they more than make up for in ease of use for everyday purposes.

Naturalistic units also make a ton more sense in a pseudo-medieval setting where initial values of things like the circumference of the globe is unknown, but how long a person’s foot, finger joint or how many steps it takes to get somewhere can be easily determined.

This is why my own game measures combat movement and distance in paces (the Roman unit happens to be almost exactly 5’) because it’s also very useful for visualizing (i.e. “he’s 5 paces from you.”).

mightybrain

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2021, 12:55:58 PM »
Personally, I'd go the other way and change back to old money.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2021, 12:56:37 PM »
There's a petition to try to convince WoTC to convert all measurement in the next edition into metric:
https://www.change.org/p/wizards-of-the-coast-please-consider-a-metric-system-version-for-dungeons-dragons-5-5-6th-edition

ROFL

Unless I am reading it wrong, it seems they only thing being requested is the same level of support for the metric system WotC has provided for 5e. I don’t think that request is out of bounds at all.

However, like a lot of change.org, choosing this platform with this approach is laughable, which is where I think you were going with this. There are many ways this request could me made, including…I don’t know…waiting to see a product roadmap, AMA, or maybe wait more than 20 minutes after the announcement to start mobilizing the next quest.

Just looking at the names, the signees are probably more likely to listen to Hasslehoff than Creed, so I can understand the importance of having the metric system version. Of course this way, they get to be a pseudo-activist, so erection achieved I suppose.

As a Mexican the imperial system sucks monkey balls. That being said since I'm not having to do much math with it I can happily ignore it's suckiness.

As a global megacorp, it surprizes me Hasbro hasn't made WotC include a conversion table for easy use, but then again, maybe their main market doesn't use the metric system in their everyday life?

Agreed that this is inactivism at it's finest.
As an American I find metric system sucks because it’s base units aren’t intuitive but are based on arbitrary units like an arc second of the Earth’s average circumference.

Imperial is based on humanistic units; a foot is about the length of a person’s foot, an inch is about the length of a finger joint, a yard is about the span of one arm to your chest, the mile (derived from the Roman mille pacum) is 1000 paces (2000 steps). What they lack in easy division by 10 (which makes it useful for science), they more than make up for in ease of use for everyday purposes.

Naturalistic units also make a ton more sense in a pseudo-medieval setting where initial values of things like the circumference of the globe is unknown, but how long a person’s foot, finger joint or how many steps it takes to get somewhere can be easily determined.

This is why my own game measures combat movement and distance in paces (the Roman unit happens to be almost exactly 5’) because it’s also very useful for visualizing (i.e. “he’s 5 paces from you.”).

Do you know how many times have I needed to know the circumference of the earth to use the metric system? ZERO.

I do agree that from a "realistic" point of view the imperial system makes more sense on pseudo medieval settings. But we don't switch to the Egyptian system when the setting is pseudo egyptian. So I guess it has more to do with where did the RPG hobby originated than with "realism".
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mightybrain

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2021, 01:25:19 PM »
But we don't switch to the Egyptian system when the setting is pseudo egyptian.

We don't?

GeekyBugle

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2021, 01:33:04 PM »
But we don't switch to the Egyptian system when the setting is pseudo egyptian.

We don't?

I haven't seen any pseudo egyptian, aztec, etc setting that switches measuring systems. Have you?
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Chris24601

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2021, 02:49:54 PM »
There's a petition to try to convince WoTC to convert all measurement in the next edition into metric:
https://www.change.org/p/wizards-of-the-coast-please-consider-a-metric-system-version-for-dungeons-dragons-5-5-6th-edition

ROFL

Unless I am reading it wrong, it seems they only thing being requested is the same level of support for the metric system WotC has provided for 5e. I don’t think that request is out of bounds at all.

However, like a lot of change.org, choosing this platform with this approach is laughable, which is where I think you were going with this. There are many ways this request could me made, including…I don’t know…waiting to see a product roadmap, AMA, or maybe wait more than 20 minutes after the announcement to start mobilizing the next quest.

Just looking at the names, the signees are probably more likely to listen to Hasslehoff than Creed, so I can understand the importance of having the metric system version. Of course this way, they get to be a pseudo-activist, so erection achieved I suppose.

As a Mexican the imperial system sucks monkey balls. That being said since I'm not having to do much math with it I can happily ignore it's suckiness.

As a global megacorp, it surprizes me Hasbro hasn't made WotC include a conversion table for easy use, but then again, maybe their main market doesn't use the metric system in their everyday life?

Agreed that this is inactivism at it's finest.
As an American I find metric system sucks because it’s base units aren’t intuitive but are based on arbitrary units like an arc second of the Earth’s average circumference.

Imperial is based on humanistic units; a foot is about the length of a person’s foot, an inch is about the length of a finger joint, a yard is about the span of one arm to your chest, the mile (derived from the Roman mille pacum) is 1000 paces (2000 steps). What they lack in easy division by 10 (which makes it useful for science), they more than make up for in ease of use for everyday purposes.

Naturalistic units also make a ton more sense in a pseudo-medieval setting where initial values of things like the circumference of the globe is unknown, but how long a person’s foot, finger joint or how many steps it takes to get somewhere can be easily determined.

This is why my own game measures combat movement and distance in paces (the Roman unit happens to be almost exactly 5’) because it’s also very useful for visualizing (i.e. “he’s 5 paces from you.”).

Do you know how many times have I needed to know the circumference of the earth to use the metric system? ZERO.

I do agree that from a "realistic" point of view the imperial system makes more sense on pseudo medieval settings. But we don't switch to the Egyptian system when the setting is pseudo egyptian. So I guess it has more to do with where did the RPG hobby originated than with "realism".
American scifi rpgs on the other hand routinely use the Metric system instead of Imperial even when the property it was based on built their models in Imperial (ex. the movie Enterprise is 305 meters and the Enterprise-D is 641 meters… because the models were scaled to precisely 1000’ and 2100’) precisely because Metric feels more modern/futuristic. This despite Metric being far less intuitive to their primary audience.

d20 Star Wars for example used 2m squares (and had 10m as the ground speed for humans… so technically 5 squares instead of D&D’s 6, but still about 30’).

HappyDaze

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2021, 02:52:47 PM »
But we don't switch to the Egyptian system when the setting is pseudo egyptian.

We don't?

I haven't seen any pseudo egyptian, aztec, etc setting that switches measuring systems. Have you?
Dont be silly,, the Aztecs clearly used zones while the Egyptians used range bands. Both of these feature in several games.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2021, 03:22:53 PM »
There's a petition to try to convince WoTC to convert all measurement in the next edition into metric:
https://www.change.org/p/wizards-of-the-coast-please-consider-a-metric-system-version-for-dungeons-dragons-5-5-6th-edition

ROFL

Unless I am reading it wrong, it seems they only thing being requested is the same level of support for the metric system WotC has provided for 5e. I don’t think that request is out of bounds at all.

However, like a lot of change.org, choosing this platform with this approach is laughable, which is where I think you were going with this. There are many ways this request could me made, including…I don’t know…waiting to see a product roadmap, AMA, or maybe wait more than 20 minutes after the announcement to start mobilizing the next quest.

Just looking at the names, the signees are probably more likely to listen to Hasslehoff than Creed, so I can understand the importance of having the metric system version. Of course this way, they get to be a pseudo-activist, so erection achieved I suppose.

As a Mexican the imperial system sucks monkey balls. That being said since I'm not having to do much math with it I can happily ignore it's suckiness.

As a global megacorp, it surprizes me Hasbro hasn't made WotC include a conversion table for easy use, but then again, maybe their main market doesn't use the metric system in their everyday life?

Agreed that this is inactivism at it's finest.
As an American I find metric system sucks because it’s base units aren’t intuitive but are based on arbitrary units like an arc second of the Earth’s average circumference.

Imperial is based on humanistic units; a foot is about the length of a person’s foot, an inch is about the length of a finger joint, a yard is about the span of one arm to your chest, the mile (derived from the Roman mille pacum) is 1000 paces (2000 steps). What they lack in easy division by 10 (which makes it useful for science), they more than make up for in ease of use for everyday purposes.

Naturalistic units also make a ton more sense in a pseudo-medieval setting where initial values of things like the circumference of the globe is unknown, but how long a person’s foot, finger joint or how many steps it takes to get somewhere can be easily determined.

This is why my own game measures combat movement and distance in paces (the Roman unit happens to be almost exactly 5’) because it’s also very useful for visualizing (i.e. “he’s 5 paces from you.”).

Do you know how many times have I needed to know the circumference of the earth to use the metric system? ZERO.

I do agree that from a "realistic" point of view the imperial system makes more sense on pseudo medieval settings. But we don't switch to the Egyptian system when the setting is pseudo egyptian. So I guess it has more to do with where did the RPG hobby originated than with "realism".
American scifi rpgs on the other hand routinely use the Metric system instead of Imperial even when the property it was based on built their models in Imperial (ex. the movie Enterprise is 305 meters and the Enterprise-D is 641 meters… because the models were scaled to precisely 1000’ and 2100’) precisely because Metric feels more modern/futuristic. This despite Metric being far less intuitive to their primary audience.

d20 Star Wars for example used 2m squares (and had 10m as the ground speed for humans… so technically 5 squares instead of D&D’s 6, but still about 30’).

In this instance you might be correct, but I still think the imperial system is used in RPGs published in the USA/UK due to familiarity, since I've seen at least 2 examples of pseudo medieval games published in Spain that use the metric system.

It's not something that's going to throw you out of immersion and it's just a shortcut, because I'm sure Medieval Spain didn't use the British measurement system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_customary_units
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

rytrasmi

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2021, 04:35:32 PM »
As an American I find metric system sucks because it’s base units aren’t intuitive but are based on arbitrary units like an arc second of the Earth’s average circumference.

Imperial is based on humanistic units; a foot is about the length of a person’s foot, an inch is about the length of a finger joint, a yard is about the span of one arm to your chest, the mile (derived from the Roman mille pacum) is 1000 paces (2000 steps). What they lack in easy division by 10 (which makes it useful for science), they more than make up for in ease of use for everyday purposes.

Naturalistic units also make a ton more sense in a pseudo-medieval setting where initial values of things like the circumference of the globe is unknown, but how long a person’s foot, finger joint or how many steps it takes to get somewhere can be easily determined.

This is why my own game measures combat movement and distance in paces (the Roman unit happens to be almost exactly 5’) because it’s also very useful for visualizing (i.e. “he’s 5 paces from you.”).
As a Canadian, despite us being officially metric, I agree with you 100%. Metric is great for science, but imperial is way better for everyday measurements. Traditional units are traditional for a reason. The history of these units is also quite interesting, too. The league for example is how far you can typically walk in 1 hour. The important part is the 1 hour, not the 2.2 km or whatever.

I run games with theater of mind mostly, so actual units rarely come up. He's a head taller than you. He's 8-10 paces away. This shot would be long range. Etc etc. It's never an issue. Leagues are great though. The town is 10 leagues away, so it will take all day to get there.

Zelen

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2021, 10:10:34 PM »
In Wokards of the Coast 5.5 edition:

  • Experience Points are replaced with Lived Experience for underprivileged races. Lived Experience may be assigned at the player's discretion
  • Levels no longer exist after being found to be discriminatory against demihumans who historically have been excluded from Levels afforded to human characters
  • The term demihuman is no longer used as this is humanocentric imperialism inappropriate to the multiracial fantasy utopian settings suitable for WOTC's 5.5e
  • The term Race is no longer used. It is replaced with the equitable and inclusive term, Folx
  • Ability Scores are now replaced by the Equity Index. Characters no longer add personal modifiers to skill rolls, but add the group's equity index to all rolls, simplifying and speeding up play while emphasizing teamwork
  • Skill Checks are replaced by Success Rolls. All characters automatically succeed at all actions, the result indicated by the dice indicates the degree of praise that should be awarded by players within 1d10 feet
« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 10:20:20 PM by Zelen »

S'mon

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2021, 02:59:26 AM »
  • The term demihuman is no longer used as this is humanocentric imperialism inappropriate to the multiracial fantasy utopian settings suitable for WOTC's 5.5e

Umm, 2000 called. They banned Demihuman with 3.0e!  ;D

mightybrain

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2021, 08:13:00 AM »
The important part is the 1 hour

Or 41.6 centi-days.

mightybrain

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2021, 08:24:41 AM »
I almost wondered for a moment if "evolved" meant they were adding evolution mechanically into the game. So maybe you would inherit your parents' ability score, and the people in your worlds would share common characteristics. Then I remembered this is WoTC and any hint of biological determinism is a dog whistle to far right neo Nazis, or something...

dkabq

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2021, 09:24:37 AM »
There's a petition to try to convince WoTC to convert all measurement in the next edition into metric:
https://www.change.org/p/wizards-of-the-coast-please-consider-a-metric-system-version-for-dungeons-dragons-5-5-6th-edition

ROFL

Unless I am reading it wrong, it seems they only thing being requested is the same level of support for the metric system WotC has provided for 5e. I don’t think that request is out of bounds at all.

However, like a lot of change.org, choosing this platform with this approach is laughable, which is where I think you were going with this. There are many ways this request could me made, including…I don’t know…waiting to see a product roadmap, AMA, or maybe wait more than 20 minutes after the announcement to start mobilizing the next quest.

Just looking at the names, the signees are probably more likely to listen to Hasslehoff than Creed, so I can understand the importance of having the metric system version. Of course this way, they get to be a pseudo-activist, so erection achieved I suppose.

As a Mexican the imperial system sucks monkey balls. That being said since I'm not having to do much math with it I can happily ignore it's suckiness.

As a global megacorp, it surprizes me Hasbro hasn't made WotC include a conversion table for easy use, but then again, maybe their main market doesn't use the metric system in their everyday life?

Agreed that this is inactivism at it's finest.
As an American I find metric system sucks because it’s base units aren’t intuitive but are based on arbitrary units like an arc second of the Earth’s average circumference.

Imperial is based on humanistic units; a foot is about the length of a person’s foot, an inch is about the length of a finger joint, a yard is about the span of one arm to your chest, the mile (derived from the Roman mille pacum) is 1000 paces (2000 steps). What they lack in easy division by 10 (which makes it useful for science), they more than make up for in ease of use for everyday purposes.

Naturalistic units also make a ton more sense in a pseudo-medieval setting where initial values of things like the circumference of the globe is unknown, but how long a person’s foot, finger joint or how many steps it takes to get somewhere can be easily determined.

This is why my own game measures combat movement and distance in paces (the Roman unit happens to be almost exactly 5’) because it’s also very useful for visualizing (i.e. “he’s 5 paces from you.”).

As an American engineer, I love the metric system.

As for being arbitrary, the base units of the metric system are loosely tied back to "naturalistic" units (e.g., a meter is approximately a yard; a kilogram is the weight of approximately 1 quart of water). Moreover, Imperial system units also arbitrary (e.g., whose "foot"; 1 inch = the length of 3 barleycorns).

The "ease of use" of Imperial units (pounds, yards, feet, inches) is their divisibility by many factors (e.g., 2, 3, 4, 6, 12, 16). More of a consideration for a medieval merchant than for a modern-day person. Otherwise, I imagine that metric system works just fine for "ease of use for everyday purposes" for everyone else in the world (e.g., GeekyBugle).

That said, for a non-modern setting, I can see how measurement systems other than the metric could contribute to verisimilitude. And, as an American, the English system is the easiest to grasp. Conversely, I know that when I played Traveller and Space Opera in my misspent youth, distances in meters felt SciFi, and I mentally converted them to 1 meter ~ 1 yd.


mightybrain

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Re: Wizards Announces New "Evolved" D&D Revision
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2021, 09:49:36 AM »
"Here it is written in the old way, this means 1.74m high..."

"But, take back 0.29m to honour the Hebrew God whose Ark this is."