Quote from: JimLotFP;456777Shit.

Admittedly, it only happens three times (twice in Poe's section, once in Verne's) but it's the sort of thing that is designed to make me froth at the mouth because I see that mistake every semester.  Heh.

Quote from: misterguignol;456780Admittedly, it only happens three times (twice in Poe's section, once in Verne's) but it's the sort of thing that is designed to make me froth at the mouth because I see that mistake every semester.  Heh.

I'll ineffectually dodge blame like a seedy politician by pointing out this is my editing error, not a writing or knowledge error. I didn't write the Poe or Verne entries, and at least I got his name right in the header and in the section credits at the end.

Quote from: TAFMSV;456442http://www.goodman-games.com/4375preview.html

There's a link to some sample pages at the bottom.

This seems like it'd be perfect from throwing together strange Ivashu for the Harn setting.

More on topic, thanks much for the review Mr. G, because of this I'm actually considering buyin this to add to my S&W library. I plan on running it one of these days and as far as I'm concerned, the more material to draw from the better, even of I don't use LotFP as a whole.

Quote from: Sigmund;456792More on topic, thanks much for the review Mr. G, because of this I'm actually considering buyin this to add to my S&W library. I plan on running it one of these days and as far as I'm concerned, the more material to draw from the better, even of I don't use LotFP as a whole.

My pleasure; glad you're enjoying the thread.

If I may be so bold, when you break down and buy LotFP, grab Vornheim too.  Even if you only use bits and pieces of both you will have some awesome options and fiddly bits to choose from.

And so we delve into the Rules and Magic book, which is more or less the Lamentation of the Flame Princess Player's Handbook.

I have to assume that the author thought that the Tutorial book was enough hand-holding because there is literally no transition between that book and this one.  After the Table of Contents BAM! a list of the steps in the process of making a character.  No preamble, no introduction, just a numbered list.

At this point I'm wondering if the Grindhouse Edition has a bit of an identity crisis: is this set intended as a beginner's entryway into the hobby or is it meant for experienced folks who already know the drill?  The former initially seems to be the answer--there is, after all, a whole book devoted to new players--but the Rules and Magic book sometimes forgets to explain concepts as they're introduced.  For example, the idea of "gaining levels" is bandied about, but what that really means hasn't been fully described yet.  Similarly, though on a smaller scale, we are told that silver pieces are the game's standard currency; we then see the prices of things listed in "sp" but I seem to have missed where it is spelled out that sp is an abbreviation for silver pieces.

Let's talk about character creation.  We get the standard six D&D-derived Ability Scores, but in some cases they have a twist: Charisma is not how likable you are or your attractiveness, but rather your innate authority, Intelligence is what your character knows prior to adventuring (so you can role-play a character with a low Int as a clever person who has little education), and Wisdom represents your connection to the cosmos or divine plan or somesuch.

LotFP's character classes will be familiar to anyone who has played old-school D&D; you get the Cleric, Fighter, Magic-User, and Specialist (read: rogue or thief).  When you read over the class descriptions you realize that LotFP is absolutely rabid about the idea of niche protection.  Fighters, for example, are the only class who get better at fighting as they level up.  Everyone else is stuck with their paltry +1 to-hit bonus from level one onward.  Similarly, only specialists get better at skills such as stealth, climbing, etc, only clerics get clerical spells, and only magic-users get wizardly spells.

One thing I would have liked to have seen in this section would be a more thorough description of what the classes actually represent because "cleric" might not be a concept immediately obvious to a new player.  That said, what description there are have that LotFP flavor: we learn that fighters are hardened to the world because of the bloodshed they've seen, we learn that magic-users are willing to blight their souls in search of arcane power, and we learn that specialists are professional adventurers who delve into dungeons in search of wealth and thrills.

What might raise some eyebrows is that demihumans (dwarfs, elfs, and halflings) are races-as-classes as per BECMI.  I'm fine with that, but I'm not convinced that LotFP really needs the demi-human races available as character classes.  They're too rooted in high fantasy to really fit the "weird fantasy" mileau.  Even the class descriptions in the book feel like Tolkien with serial the numbers filed off.

Worse yet, as classes they aren't particularly interesting.  The dwarf gets a bonus to the architecture skill, is better at carrying things, and a constitution bonus.  Elfs are good at searching and are the usual fighter-mage, though the to-hit bonus chart doesn't spell out that they get the fighter's level-based bonus to attack rolls.  Halflings get a Dex bonus, an AC bonus, and a bonus to "bushcraft" (the unfortunate name given to the wilderness survival skill).  All in all, I think the game would have been better served by keeping the demi-humans as rare, mysterious folk who are alien and possibly hostile to mankind.

The how to make a character section finishes out with a complete, yet basic equipment list.  It's a nice touch that items have separate costs depending on whether you're shopping in a rural or urban environment.  I also like that this game goes the route of not specifying a damage type for each possible weapon; instead, small weapons get this die, medium weapons get this bigger die, and two-handed weapons get this even bigger die.  In fact, I'm likely to ignore the fiddlier weapons such as polearms and rapiers and just fit everything to that more basic approach.

Next I'll dig into the rules proper.

The main chunk of rules in the Rules and Magic book is actually quite terse.  What you find in this section is more akin to "spot rules" than a comprehensive system to cover nearly every situation, which is entirely keeping within the old-school ethos.

I'm not going to dissect each rule, but I do want to mention a few things.

Scattered throughout this section are the rules for the various "skills" (the game never really calls them that, but that's essentially what they are) used in LotFP.  There are ten of them: Architecture, Bushcraft, Climbing, Languages, Open Doors, Search, Sleight of Hand, Sneak Attack, Stealth, and Tinkering.  These skills are rated from 1-6; roll a d6, get a number equal to or less than your skill, you succeed.  Pretty slick and easy, really.  I could definitely see people porting this skill system over to their favorite retro-clone if LotFP isn't their style.

There are a couple weird quirks here though.  Sometimes your skill rating is modified by an Ability Score (Languages, Open Doors) but they usually aren't.  If you get an Int bonus to Languages, why not a Dex bonus to Sleight of Hand?  Also, I'm dubious about how needful some of these skills are.  Is the ability to shoulder open a stuck door really a "skill" that can be improved with practice in a meaningful way?  Similarly, if I wanted to search for a hidden door, does that fall under Search or Architecture?

LotFP has has a sleek little Encumbrance system.  The character sheet has a number list of "slots": one for each item you are carrying.  Fill more than ten slots and you go up an encumbrance category.  Some items, such as the heavier armors or over-sized loot, count as more than one "slot."  I also like that the encumbrance section stresses that you aren't really expected to keep track of your character's encumbrance like an over-active accountant, but that the GM can call for an "audit" at any time!

This section also includes rules for a couple things you usually don't find in a fantasy rpg such as how to handle drugs & alcohol, getting lost in the wilderness, and the effects of sleep deprivation.  All good inclusions that bend the game toward that weird fantasy style.

Next up is an unexpected section on Maritime Adventures.  I would probably handwave any "voyage at sea" stuff, but this is a really interesting section for beginners because it does edge them away from the "dungeons only" mindset.  The rules in this section do look serviceable, so if you want a bit of detail for a sea-faring campaign this would be a great place to start.

The section on Retainers is next.  I usually don't use them in my games, but I can completely understand why they're in the book.  The list of retainers and what they do and what they will cost you is very complete and actually a pretty interesting read.  If you own a fully-staffed keep, you had better be generating income or you'll go broke in short orders.  One thing that jumped out at me in this section is the suggestion that Henchmen can become full-fledged PCs if someone's character dies.  That's a common enough practice in old-school games, but it's nice to see that spelled out.

Quote from: misterguignol;457537There are a couple weird quirks here though. Sometimes your skill rating is modified by an Ability Score (Languages, Open Doors) but they usually aren't. If you get an Int bonus to Languages, why not a Dex bonus to Sleight of Hand? Also, I'm dubious about how needful some of these skills are. Is the ability to shoulder open a stuck door really a "skill" that can be improved with practice in a meaningful way? Similarly, if I wanted to search for a hidden door, does that fall under Search or Architecture?

Unless it is changed in the Grindhouse edition, only the thief "skills" increase with level, and then only for thieves.  I think some other "skills" like Architecture and Bushcraft are given as racial abilities (dwarven knowledge of stone structures, halfling's ability to hide in the wilderness).  I think all the other ones are the ones that receive the modifier from the ability score.  So if you have an 18 Strength, your chance to break down a door is (1+3=)4 in 6, and this will only change if your Strength changes (though the DM might give an extra modifier depending on how tough the door is).  I think there's a reason he did not come out and call them "skills", as they are really more a mish-mash of racial, class, and standard abilities.

Quote from: islan;457559Unless it is changed in the Grindhouse edition, only the thief "skills" increase with level, and then only for thieves.

Specialists can increase any of the skills as they level up in the Grindhouse Edition.

QuoteI think some other "skills" like Architecture and Bushcraft are given as racial abilities (dwarven knowledge of stone structures, halfling's ability to hide in the wilderness).

This is correct, yes.  But a Specialist can also spend points per level to increase these, so they aren't strictly racial abilities.

QuoteI think all the other ones are the ones that receive the modifier from the ability score.  So if you have an 18 Strength, your chance to break down a door is (1+3=)4 in 6, and this will only change if your Strength changes (though the DM might give an extra modifier depending on how tough the door is).

A Specialist can spend points on Open Doors and Languages, the two skills that get attribute bonuses, according to the text on page 10.

QuoteI think there's a reason he did not come out and call them "skills", as they are really more a mish-mash of racial, class, and standard abilities.

That may be, but "skills" seems like a more to-the-point designation that "Common Activities."

Quote from: misterguignol;457596Specialists can increase any of the skills as they level up in the Grindhouse Edition.

Oh, okay, I was able to download the Rules and Magic pdf (which is up for free on the lotfp blog) and take a look at it.  It seems like pretty much all of these are for the Specialist to excel at.  I forget that the Specialist isn't the thief like in other editions of D&D, but a more of a "professional adventurer".  I know "forcing open" stuck doors is a big thing in old D&D, though I'm still a little confused about its emphasis.  So I guess if a specialist is a "professional adventurer", and knowing to effectively kick open doors is a part of adventuring, then that's just what the specialist is good at.  *shrug*

One thing I wanted to mention about the last section (but forgot) was how LotFP's take on experience points helps situate the game.  Simply put: you gain far more experience for getting loot than you do killing monsters.  I find that this helps enforce the feel of the game; this isn't a game about monster stomping, this is a game about trying to avoid horrors as much as possible in the mad dash to secure a fortune.

The next section of the Rules and Magic book dovetails with the above because it's basically a section on how to spend your ill-gotten gains.  Interestingly, instead of having a "build a fortress when you hit name level" subsystem, LotFP instead has a section on establishing a household and making financial investments.  I can honestly say I've never seen a D&D variant with rules for bankruptcy before.

The next section is on combat.  These rules come later than I would have expected, but perhaps that too is meant to emphasize that fighting should be your last option in a given encounter.  These rules will be familiar to folks who have played older editions of D&D: roll initiative, roll a d20 + modifiers vs. AC to see if you hit, roll damage if successful.  There are some fiddly bits and combat options here; fighters, dwarves, and elves can press attacks and fight defensively, and everyone else can opt to charge, wrestle, pursue foes, etc.  The header for this section is pretty amusing; as the rules progress, so does a duel between two warriors.  Typically, it ends in a bloody mess.

Once the combat rules conclude, so too does the Rules section of the Rules and Magic book.  As with most old-school Player's Handbooks, the majority of the book is given over to spell descriptions.  What separates these two sections are 8 color pages of art.  These vary in quality, from a somewhat cheap looking Keith Richards-esque bard with a big pants bulge entertaining a bunch of buxom wenches to an adventurer being pulled apart by zombies.

Quote from: CRKrueger;456346I hope at some point Raggi releases some kind of Weird Fantasy setting.

I thought his Weird New World setting booklet comes in the LotFP box sets? If not it's available on PDF and in print.

(edit: found linkage)
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=83001
http://www.lotfp.com/store/index.php?route=product/search&keyword=weird%20new%20world&category_id=0

From what I recall reading of it, WNW is a sandbox hexcrawly sorta setting. Not sure how Weird it is, been a while since I've read reviews. Offhand I'm more tempted to just get it and use with some gritty early gun rpg I already have used than get LotFP.

Quote from: Casey777;457943I thought his Weird New World setting booklet comes in the LotFP box sets?

It was part of the Deluxe edition, but is available separately from a number of vendors (see the left column of my blog for the worldwide distribution list).

It's a sand(ice!)box adventure, not the setting for LotFP.

Before launching into the spell descriptions proper, the magic side of the Rules and Magic book details the kind of things that clerics and magic-users can do.  Clerics can write spell scrolls, create holy water, research new spells, and sacrifice creature to create warding scrolls (!!!).  Magic-Users can pen spell scrolls, transcribe found spells to their spellbooks, create potions, wands, and staves, and recharge wands and staves.

Of course, we also get the rules for casting spells, but there are pretty bare.  One thing that is abolsutely not made clear in this section is that claim made in the explanation of Ability Scores that high Intelligence influences "the saving throws of subjects of the Magic-User's spells."  As far as I can tell, this is never explained and might be a hold over from some earlier editing phase.

The spell lists do a good job of thematically separating the cleric and the magic-user; the magic-user gets the weird and flashy spells, while the cleric gets the usual healing spells and some extra-planar contacting spells.  There is at least one error in the organization of the spells along these lines, however.  Animate Dead Monsters appears on the Magic-User list as a 6th level spell, but it's descriptions claims that it is a 5th level Cleric spell.

I won't go into a spell-by-spell reading of the magic section, but there are some interesting things I'd like to note briefly.  First, the way that LotFP's magic system differs from other retro-clones is defined largely by absence.  The Magic-User in LotFP is not the walking artillery platform found in other D&D games; you might not notice it at first, but familiar spells like Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Acid Arrow are simply not to be found.  This was a wise choice, in my opinion, because it subtly pushes Magic-Users toward taking the spells more in line with weird fantasy.  (They do still have Magic Missile.)

Second, the spells that are original to the game again emphasize the weird.  For example, the 1st level spell Bookspeak cause a book to animate and verbally disclose its contents.  As another example, Howl of the Moon, turns the target into a bloodthirsty savage somewhere between a raging barbarian and a werewolf.

Next up, the Referee book!

Quote from: misterguignol;457973For example, the 1st level spell Bookspeak cause a book to animate and verbally disclose its contents.

This sounds like it could go bad pretty easily!

Also, do you have to be holding the book to activate the spell? It would be pretty awesome to out someone as an evil cultist by bookspeaking his black bible in front of the angry mob or something.

Quote from: Cole;457979This sounds like it could go bad pretty easily!

Also, do you have to be holding the book to activate the spell? It would be pretty awesome to out someone as an evil cultist by bookspeaking his black bible in front of the angry mob or something.

Heh, that is a cool idea, but basically the spell lets you ask the book questions that it will answer about its contents.  And yeah, you have to be touching it.