The adventurer will come into their own in that time, someone who isn't afraid of the unknown.

Very true.  I was thinking more along the lines of what people would do than what PCs would do.

Jim Bowie or William Walker can return in spirit, I'd say their archetype sleeps in the human psyche.

As of our last D&D session, my character and one other are zombies. Animate Dead is a handy way to keep casualties moving under their own power until you can evacuate to someplace Raise Dead is available!

Quote from: Phillip;718499As of our last D&D session, my character and one other are zombies. Animate Dead is a handy way to keep casualties moving under their own power until you can evacuate to someplace Raise Dead is available!

You know, this scenario is another good example of how a world that worked by the rules of Dungeons and Dragons wouldn't look or feel so much like our world's middle ages, but that's off topic for this thread.

Quote from: dragoner;717675Crowds can push down walls, look what the English soccer hooligans did to the Italians.

Good point, especially since that is the closest parallel to zombies in nature!

Quote from: Nexus;718308There's also the stress of seeing many people die and rise from the dead, of being constantly surrounded by things that want to eat you, having almost no modern conveniences (heat, running water, power, etc), stuck in often close quarters with people that may be close to strangers, etc. Many zombie stories have fairly safe haven, physically anyway. In the TWD, the prison was pretty secure actually. Woodsbury was too. The problems came from human isssues from food and water to psychological. Which is danger even in some modern so called Apocalypse shelters.

I absolutely accept that characters make mistakes and do stupid things. I'm sympathetic to characters who have a hard time killing zombies, characters who are hoping for a cure, and many others. What bugs me is when the creators frequently seem clueless, as they frequently do.  In particular, many tend to portray only macho tough-guy solutions as the right choice - while any more thoughtful approaches are (a) not considered in detail by the writers, and (b) often portrayed as useless or worse, especially as embodied in scientists or engineers.

It doesn't take scientists or engineers or even carpenters to do most of what I'm talking about, though. Once know that a zombie bite is deadly, it seems pretty fucking obvious to me to wear a leather jacket and work gloves if you might be dealing with them. Likewise, barricading a door to only open a crack doesn't require a professional carpenter.

As an example of writer versus character stupidities. In TWD and other films, there are multiple scenes where they are trying to clear an area of zombies, and they fight in a guarded manner watching each others' backs. Sometimes a character fails to stand in position correctly, resulting in them getting bitten and thus dying. I have no problem with the character making that mistake. However, the writers clearly portray that guarded fighting is right choice here and the character was at fault. I have sympathy with the character, and have a problem with the foolish approach that put the character in that position.

More specifically to TWD,

Spoiler

Woodbury especially I thought had abysmal security, which relied on people constantly patrolling a single layer of passive defense - where they would shoot any zombie that approached the wall. A brief lapse in guard and one loose piece of sheet metal (?!) meant that a zombie slipped through the wall and killed someone.

There should be at least two layers of barriers, with obstacles / traps in between them. Zombies should be allowed up to the outer barrier and allowed to try to break it. If a few slip through and get trapped, then they can investigate and beef up the barrier there. Note that when I say "traps", I don't mean any complex construction. The series has shown that zombies will blithely walk into mud and get stuck, or impale themselves on spears rather than duck around them.

This discussion does kind of make me want to play in a zombie RPG scenario to try out some things like this. I suspect that it wouldn't hold up in the long term, but short-term adventures and mini-campaigns can be great fun.

After some consideration for an upcoming zombie apocalypse campaign and what's happened in previous such games I'd think I've had to recommend that the ghouls be smarter and more proactive than they are in much of the source material, at least as much as they were in the original Night of the Living Dead (able to use simple tools, insect like levels of coordination etc) and/or more dangerous in other ways (like being Runners instead of Shamblers).

And here's why. Many groups just aren't going to create the inter group tension and drama that otherwise feeds the drama, adds room for slip up and role playing. Players, in my experience have a tendency to cooperate and focus on the "goal" whatever that happens to be, usually defeating their enemy or solving the essential problem the scenario presents. And when said problem is as simple as Shamblers tend to be, its not a difficult problem to solve for canny Player types so the game can get dull very quickly. PCs need a bit more pressure to keep things interesting and, well, horror like, beyond the first few encounters. That and the mental, psychological issues might not be what everyone wants or is capable of playing out but staying alive is a quick and easily understood motivation.

If you have a group of real horror/zombie fiends this may not be necessary but overall, I think smarter zombie just work better in the role playing gamer venue especially for a game or moderate to long length. Not so smart they look some of their appeal and become something like vampires or opposing humans but smart enough that encounters can be more varied by design. Along with a good mix of others challenges this could keep a zombie campaign fresh and exciting over the long term.

Thoughts?

I agree with what you have said. But I think your missing an element. While the players may cooperate. NPC's are there to throw the spanner into the works. Use them to fuck up the perfect plan, defense, or what have you. Maybe ones a thief. Steals something important to the players. Lots of possibilities.

Quote from: Ronin;721936I agree with what you have said. But I think your missing an element. While the players may cooperate. NPC's are there to throw the spanner into the works. Use them to fuck up the perfect plan, defense, or what have you. Maybe ones a thief. Steals something important to the players. Lots of possibilities.

Yeah, that can work but you have to be careful and use a light touch. If you turn a NPC into Gilligan there's no script writer to keep the PCs from ditching Gillian.

Quote from: Nexus;721938Yeah, that can work but you have to be careful and use a light touch. If you turn a NPC into Gilligan there's no script writer to keep the PCs from ditching Gillian.

True, but after they ditch Gilligan. Let the players find out he has the keys to their tank, or what have you;)

Quote from: Ronin;721939True, but after they ditch Gilligan. Let the players find out he has the keys to their tank, or what have you;)

Touche

This thread got me thinking...

We've pointed out a lot of good criticisms of the genre as well as commentary on the motivations for it... but in terms of using the Zombie-Apocalypse meme for full RPG effect that might address the technical issues (such as the "Use the tank to run them all over - hehe which admittedly is a pretty solid tactic) - has anyone ever did a Victorian/Wild West/Steampunk Zombie Apocalypse style game?

The technological limitations of the periods would certainly be a huge problem.

Quote from: tenbones;722109This thread got me thinking...

We've pointed out a lot of good criticisms of the genre as well as commentary on the motivations for it... but in terms of using the Zombie-Apocalypse meme for full RPG effect that might address the technical issues (such as the "Use the tank to run them all over - hehe which admittedly is a pretty solid tactic) - has anyone ever did a Victorian/Wild West/Steampunk Zombie Apocalypse style game?

The technological limitations of the periods would certainly be a huge problem.

I think variant zombie settings are somewhat popular among the zombie enthusiasts. I've heard of several variant games and played in a con game that staged a mini zombie apocalypse in the wild west. It was definitely a different feel, more isolated by far. No phones or internet with the nearest help literally 100s of miles away.

One of the first adventures for GURPS Transhuman Space is called Orbital Decay and its basically a zombie game in space.

The All Flesh Must Eaten RPG has published source books for using zombies in a wide variety of settings: Martial arts, The Wild West, pirates even pro wrestling and more.