Quote from: mhensley;699874I dislike that somewhere along the line the druid became all about being a shapeshifter and less about being a priest of nature.

I agree with that. A shapeshifter might be a cool idea for a class, but maybe shapeshifting should only be an option for the druid.

I am actually liking 5e's take on the situation...limited to a short list of useful mundane animals useful primarily in exploration but also useful in some social scenerios unless you specialize in shapeshifting at the direct cost of spellcasting  unless you are 20th level, fair to me. My only issue is the temporary highpoint issue but that seems fairly containable after thinking it through.

Quote from: Imp;700382I never ordinarily allowed casting as an animal or non-humanoid in 1e. You need to be able to make human gestures to fulfill the somatic components and human sounds to fuifill the verbal components. If you were, say, a monkey or a parrot you might be able to do one or the other.

That was our ruling but I did see it ruled far more liberally because it wasn't explicit much like elven F/M's casting in armor (we went with elven chain allowed for it).

Quote from: Iosue;700022I have just found the threshold for how much I give a damn about balance.  And that's where people complain that the Druid's weasel shape is not balanced with the cat shape.

Jesus Christ.

Really?  That seems somewhat . . . extreme.

Quote from: Marleycat;700414That was our ruling but I did see it ruled far more liberally because it wasn't explicit much like elven F/M's casting in armor (we went with elven chain allowed for it).

I thought Elven chain was 2e; in 1E they gave casting in armor as an example in the dual class section (as an example of terrible, terrible rule placement).

Quote from: Votan;700443I thought Elven chain was 2e; in 1E they gave casting in armor as an example in the dual class section (as an example of terrible, terrible rule placement).

It was. Only played 1e 3-4 times. 2e is my old school Dnd.

5e druids while shifted have the following rule for spellcasting.

Can't speak, cast spells, or any action that requires hands or speech.
Shifting doesn't break concentration on spells already cast.

That pretty much seems to kibosh any spellcasting unless there is something in the skills or feats that allows casting without gestures and speech?

At 7th level the beast form can talk. But still can not cast spells.

At 20th level finally can cast spells while shifted.

Seems fairly balanced. Im sure some may grouse about not being able to cast.

As I said upthread it seems like a 2e Druid with a bit of 3e/4e ( I assume they get at-wills?)and explicit rules. I like it.

Im reading through the forms availible... Bear... cat... deer... horse... owl... TRICERATOPS er... wa?

Also the weasel seems to be missing part of its entry. Im guessing a cut-n-paste goof.

Dont see any at will powers, but one of the circles does get a quick spell recovery ability.

Druids can also blow a higher level spell slot to cast a lower level spell. IE: burn a level 2 slot to power a level 1 spell. All the memorized spells arent lost from memory. Just the access to the slots. Sort of a convoluted spell point system.

They can memorize 1 + druid level. And the spells can be any you have access to.

Quote from: Omega;700494Im reading through the forms availible... Bear... cat... deer... horse... owl... TRICERATOPS er... wa?

Also the weasel seems to be missing part of its entry. Im guessing a cut-n-paste goof.

Dont see any at will powers, but one of the circles does get a quick spell recovery ability.

Druids can also blow a higher level spell slot to cast a lower level spell. IE: burn a level 2 slot to power a level 1 spell. All the memorized spells arent lost from memory. Just the access to the slots. Sort of a convoluted spell point system.

They can memorize 1 + druid level. And the spells can be any you have access to.

The Circle of Land get spell recovery . Triceritops is the Shapeshifting circle. So it seems ONLY wizards and clerics get at-wills? If so I like it

FYI, the magic system is like Arcana Evolved mostly. Kind of like a 3e sorcerer with a spell list with the ability to use spell stots to modify spell effects etc.

You can know a bunch of spells but can only cast up to your slot limit with the creveat that wizards and clerics have a couple of at-will spells and depending which slot you use gives you effect. Example fireball in a 7 slot turns into DBF. Basically it's still vancian but a mix between the old version wizard and 3e sorcerer and AE. Intriguing.

Something like MM or Light is a cantrip so is at-will and your typical full magic user knows 3-4...personally I would have 1 social/exploration/combat but that's me.

Get rid of druids. Run them as nature priests.

Make shapeshifting a feat/class ability than anyone can buy as a high cost as long as it's built into some background type thingie. So Beornings or Barak or whatever.....

So what a nature priest that can transform buy the feat, want a beserk viking that changes to a bear, buy it, a thief that changes into a cat? sure

If the shapeshift ability is balanced then any class should be able to use it rather than tying it to a specific class.

If i used it in my heartbreaker it would be an ability you bought at 1st level that activated at 5th. It would come with 1 animal form adding a new form every 2 levels. It wouldn't change any of your attack or defence bonuses though except for size modification (small creatures get defence bonuses) but damage would change. HPs probably not but I woudl play with wounds instead.

Clerics have some at will abilities it looks like.

Mages seem to work just like druids. Spell slots as a sort of spell point system for the memorized spell inventory to be called from.
At 18th level they get a 1st and 2nd level spell they can cast at will. and once per day can swap out what those two are. weird.
The schools have various tricks, some are automatic small buff sorts.

Looks like bonuses are gained at level steps so its not all instant at wills all over the place.

Quote from: Omega;700521Clerics have some at will abilities it looks like.

Mages seem to work just like druids. Spell slots as a sort of spell point system for the memorized spell inventory to be called from.
At 18th level they get a 1st and 2nd level spell they can cast at will. and once per day can swap out what those two are. weird.
The schools have various tricks, some are automatic small buff sorts.

Interesting...they are going down FantasyCraft's path with interesting differences

The big differences I see is FC wizards have a much smaller spell list,  healing is a wizard spell, advantage is they throw 1st level spells at-will at 10th level and 2nd level at 20th Very similar...yes they are learning.

Yes, white wizard's are your baseline healers given ClericPriests are path driven with 8-10 supernatural effects give or take in FC.

I would like the at-will stuff to occur at 5/15 instead of 18 and all in. No problem that is an easy houserule.

Edit: I forgot that 5e has cantrips and they are at-will so it's so similar yet different compared to FantasyCraft, interesting...

The big differences I see is FC wizards have a much smaller spell list,  healing is a wizard spell, advantage is they throw 1st level spells at-will at 10th level and 2nd level at 20th Very similar...yes they are learning.