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Author Topic: Why Traveller Leads the Pack of Science Fiction RPGs  (Read 11505 times)

ffilz

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Why Traveller Leads the Pack of cience Fiction RPGs
« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2018, 12:37:33 PM »
Quote from: nDervish;1060945
Where does that come from, given that the original 3LBB had no mention of any "Third Imperium", unless you also bought the optional Spinward Marches supplement?  And pretty much every edition of Traveller has had rules for (sub)sector and world generation, which rather implies that you're expected to create your own setting instead of using some kind of official Traveller universe.  I would expect a bunch of ancient Traveller grogs to remember where things started.

Yea, that post didn't parse right for me. If it's claiming Traveller MUST equal Third Imperium, then I call BS. But of course there is a strong contingent of folks who seem to feel that way...

Frank

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Why Traveller Leads the Pack of cience Fiction RPGs
« Reply #61 on: October 19, 2018, 03:38:12 PM »
It has also had this strange ability for essentially a generic system to licence itself to other game systems. GURPS Traveller is kind of like having OSR GURPS (GURPS converted to OSR rules).

That takes a lot of name recognition. GURPS already had a pretty deep Space / Sci-fi catalog when they licensed the Traveller name. There was a HERO licensed version as well.

ffilz

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« Reply #62 on: October 19, 2018, 04:18:03 PM »
Quote from: Toadmaster;1061035
It has also had this strange ability for essentially a generic system to licence itself to other game systems. GURPS Traveller is kind of like having OSR GURPS (GURPS converted to OSR rules).

That takes a lot of name recognition. GURPS already had a pretty deep Space / Sci-fi catalog when they licensed the Traveller name. There was a HERO licensed version as well.

Yea, GURPS Traveller, T20, and Traveller Hero really don't help the idea that Traveller is a game and The Third Imperium is a setting... But I run the game Traveller. The Spinward Marches, the Third Imperium, and more don't appear in my setting (though various bits might show up, Vargr are confirmed, but they may differ from 3I setting Vargr).

Frank

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« Reply #63 on: October 19, 2018, 04:58:36 PM »
I've run a fuckton of Traveller in the past too many decades. More than half of my games have been in my own settings using the Traveller books. The other half has been MY interpretation of the Third Imperium. And that's pretty common for much of the Traveller I've played with other GMs. Even the GMs I know who use the Third Imperium, its really just a backdrop where they set their own campaigns and canon rarely gets brought up.

Toadmaster

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« Reply #64 on: October 19, 2018, 05:54:02 PM »
Quote from: ffilz;1061049
Yea, GURPS Traveller, T20, and Traveller Hero really don't help the idea that Traveller is a game and The Third Imperium is a setting... But I run the game Traveller. The Spinward Marches, the Third Imperium, and more don't appear in my setting (though various bits might show up, Vargr are confirmed, but they may differ from 3I setting Vargr).

Frank

That fits my experience as well. Traveller definitely has a vibe from the rules (medium hard science) that sets it apart from the many sci-fi games with a more fantastic take, but I never felt the setting was a huge part of that. Basically just a backdrop to help a GM flesh out stuff here and there, or decide how something works. It never struck me as a critical piece of the game, any more than Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms was the one true way to play D&D.

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Why Traveller Leads the Pack of cience Fiction RPGs
« Reply #65 on: October 21, 2018, 06:23:23 AM »
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1060920
CE is mostly a religion for those believing there's a free version of Traveller.


Your so funny, you crack me up.

nDervish

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« Reply #66 on: October 21, 2018, 07:19:09 AM »
Quote from: nDervish;1060945
Where does that come from, given that the original 3LBB had no mention of any "Third Imperium", unless you also bought the optional Spinward Marches supplement?  And pretty much every edition of Traveller has had rules for (sub)sector and world generation, which rather implies that you're expected to create your own setting instead of using some kind of official Traveller universe.  I would expect a bunch of ancient Traveller grogs to remember where things started.

Quote from: ffilz;1061003
Yea, that post didn't parse right for me. If it's claiming Traveller MUST equal Third Imperium, then I call BS. But of course there is a strong contingent of folks who seem to feel that way...


Sorry about the lack of clarity.  I was ranting, plus I rewrote parts of it multiple times and some of the rewrites may not have fit together all that well.

What I was trying to get at was that a lot of the people in the "Traveller == 3I" camp present themselves as having been playing Traveller forever, even though, in the earliest editions of Traveller, the 3I only existed in optional add-on products (such as Spinward Marches) and didn't get so much as a passing mention in the core rules.  "Traveller MUST equal 3I" is clearly bullshit because there was a time when there was only Traveller and there was no (published) 3I.

On top of that, they're also ignoring the ubiquity of system and sector generation rules across most/all editions of Traveller.  Maybe it's just me, but devoting a significant portion of the rules to "here's how you create your own setting" seems like a pretty strong indication that you're intended to actually use those rules and create your own setting, not go out and buy existing 3I materials.

So, in summary, I agree with you, plus I think the "mandatory 3I" crowd are a bunch of big, stupid poopy-heads who can't see that the game itself clearly disagrees with them.

David Johansen

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« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2018, 10:30:00 AM »
It's probably just semantics and an overly defensive, no 3I crowd over reacting.  The Third Imperium is Traveller in the same way a strawberry is fruit.
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Shawn Driscoll

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« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2018, 03:04:13 PM »
Quote from: nDervish;1061250
"Traveller MUST equal 3I" is clearly bullshit because there was a time when there was only Traveller and there was no (published) 3I.

I run into the Traveller system/setting mash-up crowd a lot, too. I've always kept its system and setting as separate things. I've even kept the 3rd Imperium separate from players that were in a 3rd Imperium setting, because a game session might have taken place in a small town and the 3rd Imperium was only talked about maybe.

flyingmice

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« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2018, 09:07:18 PM »
StarCluster 4 leads the pack of Science Fiction RPGs! It merely leads them from behind! Waaaaay behind!
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ffilz

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Why Traveller Leads the Pack of cience Fiction RPGs
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2018, 10:35:26 PM »
Quote from: nDervish;1061250
Sorry about the lack of clarity.  I was ranting, plus I rewrote parts of it multiple times and some of the rewrites may not have fit together all that well.

What I was trying to get at was that a lot of the people in the "Traveller == 3I" camp present themselves as having been playing Traveller forever, even though, in the earliest editions of Traveller, the 3I only existed in optional add-on products (such as Spinward Marches) and didn't get so much as a passing mention in the core rules.  "Traveller MUST equal 3I" is clearly bullshit because there was a time when there was only Traveller and there was no (published) 3I.

On top of that, they're also ignoring the ubiquity of system and sector generation rules across most/all editions of Traveller.  Maybe it's just me, but devoting a significant portion of the rules to "here's how you create your own setting" seems like a pretty strong indication that you're intended to actually use those rules and create your own setting, not go out and buy existing 3I materials.

So, in summary, I agree with you, plus I think the "mandatory 3I" crowd are a bunch of big, stupid poopy-heads who can't see that the game itself clearly disagrees with them.

Oh, cool, sounds like we're in violent agreement... What's funny is the folks who say the rules "MUST produce something like the 3I" despite other folks complaining how the rules don't fit the 3I...

I don't care if someone likes the 3I, hey, I've seen some folks examining Supplement 3, and I can see how that could be very cool, but to assume that the 3I is the end-all-be-all of Traveller is disappointing. We play D&D IN Greyhawk or Mystara... No one assumes that the Nyr Div is a lake in Dungeons and Dragons...

Frank

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Why Traveller Leads the Pack of cience Fiction RPGs
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2018, 04:05:07 AM »
Quote from: Dave R;1060193
I think I do not come to message boards to click links and watch videos.  


Well, it's 2018, and Youtube has become one of the best vehicles for reaching people, so you're probably going to have to get used to it.
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Shawn Driscoll

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Why Traveller Leads the Pack of cience Fiction RPGs
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2018, 05:14:32 AM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1061502
Well, it's 2018, and Youtube has become one of the best vehicles for reaching people, so you're probably going to have to get used to it.

Quoted for truth.

Dave 2

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« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2018, 03:34:20 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1061502
Well, it's 2018, and Youtube has become one of the best vehicles for reaching people, so you're probably going to have to get used to it.

No, I'm really not going to have to get used to it.  This is my hobby and my entertainment, not my job.  If I sit out an occasional thread, that's a little more time for real reading.  And if the hobby goes all youtube videos all the time, that's my cue to exit anyway.

jeff37923

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« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2018, 03:41:07 PM »
Quote from: Dave R;1061580
No, I'm really not going to have to get used to it.  This is my hobby and my entertainment, not my job.  If I sit out an occasional thread, that's a little more time for real reading.  And if the hobby goes all youtube videos all the time, that's my cue to exit anyway.

Except that you didn't sit it out. You responded.
"Meh."