Quote from: Kyle Aaron;936397...
Where it falls apart is with level-ascending AC; we don't find that an infantry company's sergeant major can take more bullets or is less likely to be hit than a newbie private. Maybe a bit tougher and harder to hit, but not like 2-8 times harder (assuming 2-8 levels with thus 2-8 times as many hit points).
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Yes, kind of. Though during a barrage, the experienced men taking cover promptly and properly are much less likely to be hit than less experienced troops who may lack such reactions/practices. But unlike having a pile of hit points, there's no guarantee anyone outside a tank won't be hit and killed by the first incoming round.

Of course, not just with Pete but the original RQ was written, as far as the combat was concerned, by Steve Perrin who was a SCA member and enthusiast. I'm not saying the realism isn't there but when it comes to wounds, specifically, there aren't any especially serious consequences until you get to "serious" wounds, and even then you can heal fairly quickly. Only "Major" wounds take a significant time to heal if it's without magic and those wounds will give you permanent injuries.

Quote from: Skarg;936448There is in GURPS, starting with the bleeding and disease rules. Season to taste.

I knew it! Though I didn't remember the rules, amazingly enough...

Quote from: Bilharzia;936451This is my chart for Mythras' (RuneQuest 6) injuries:
Link deleted by Bilharzia's request - AsenRG.

I like your approach:).

QuoteTo the OPs point - I suspect some of the assumptions about wounding are in some way influenced by *modern* combat with the effects of supersonic bullets, which have different effects than slower moving ancient weapons, this is where the "all or nothing" properties of wounds might in part come from.

Yeah, I have the same suspicions at times.

QuoteThe other thing to consider is for the most part the game systems are emulating *fiction* not necessarily reality which is a bit different from the "it's just a game" get-out clause - the fiction might actually be close to "real" combat, wounds, etc. but nevertheless there's a lot of dramatic licence, so the games (especially something like RQ/Mythras) are going after the fiction more than 'reality' even if the fiction is gritty low fantasy in the style of Joe Abercrombie, or Robert Howard etc.

Expecting CRK intervention in 3...2...1...oh, wait!

Quote from: CRKrueger;936452Well, the thing to remember is Pete is a fairly serious reenactor from what I understand, and while I don't know how deep he is into ARMA, HEMA, studying fechtbuchs, etc, he's out there wearing armor, wielding weapons and getting bruised and bloodied, so I don't know that it's entirely accurate to say that the combat system is modeled on fiction as opposed to reality.  The combat special effect system in particular seems designed to model his real experiences with the weapons rather than Mongoose's Feats like "Pantherish Twist" etc which were an attempt to model the fiction of Howard and the pastiches.

I just had a feeling you'd reply to this.
(And I can confirm that RQ6/Mythras has been amazingly easy to explain to the people in the same HEMA group as me, but that's not because of its injury system).

Quote from: Bilharzia;936468Of course, not just with Pete but the original RQ was written, as far as the combat was concerned, by Steve Perrin who was a SCA member and enthusiast. I'm not saying the realism isn't there but when it comes to wounds, specifically, there aren't any especially serious consequences until you get to "serious" wounds, and even then you can heal fairly quickly. Only "Major" wounds take a significant time to heal if it's without magic and those wounds will give you permanent injuries.

That seems fairly realistic to me, if you add rules for the wounds worsening over time;).

Quote from: Skarg;936447Sounds like a great match for the collaborative storygaming genre, stuffed full of player agency.
Maybe someone will start a LARP club for it in Germany.

I'd have an excuse to stat Glen Frey.

Well I have been running an all out HarnMaster game set in Harn that is very realistic to say the least.  When people with Daggers can oneshot kill a person, like in real life, I think it's quite real.  You have Bloodloss, Minor, Serious and Grievous wounds to contend with that just lower your ability to carry on a fight plus Fatigue levels that do the same.  You can in the right locations cut off a limb or get a Mortal wound chance, which isn't that hard to do, that can kill instantly.  Players think twice before just starting a fight, they tend to talk their way out of a jam and tend to be a bit more polite in taverns.

I keep toying with the idea of picking up Harnmaster.  I have the battle supplement- Battlelust.  But HM scares me a little- there's so much, so very, very much for it.  My little wallet cringes looking at it.

Quote from: RunningLaser;936511I keep toying with the idea of picking up Harnmaster.  I have the battle supplement- Battlelust.  But HM scares me a little- there's so much, so very, very much for it.  My little wallet cringes looking at it.

I kinda feel the same way;).

Quote from: CRKrueger;936452Well, the thing to remember is Pete is a fairly serious reenactor from what I understand, and while I don't know how deep he is into ARMA, HEMA, studying fechtbuchs, etc, he's out there wearing armor, wielding weapons and getting bruised and bloodied, so I don't know that it's entirely accurate to say that the combat system is modeled on fiction as opposed to reality.  The combat special effect system in particular seems designed to model his real experiences with the weapons rather than Mongoose's Feats like "Pantherish Twist" etc which were an attempt to model the fiction of Howard and the pastiches.

I have to admit, I have had my fair share of deep cuts from nicked sword blades, bone fractures, concussions and worst of all, ripping my left knee apart in a tournament. However, atop my love of historical combat I am even more into battlefield pathology reports from ancient and medieval grave excavations. Fascinating stuff!

Yes, the special effects in Mythras/RQ6 were based on a lifelong study of various martial arts, whereas the underlying mechanics came from my frustration in trying to replicate in RPGs what I did as a matter of course during fights. The Physical Damage rules - like in most games - are merely a simplified model, but there's a very careful balance between game design and reality, to keep fights dynamic and exciting.

Quote from: Pete Nash;936546However, atop my love of historical combat I am even more into battlefield pathology reports from ancient and medieval grave excavations. Fascinating stuff!

I was reading one just last week and it was pretty grim. Bodies with a dozen stabs to the face sort of stuff.

Also a lot of evidence of really serious injuries that healed prior to the person's last battle.

Quote from: Pete Nash;936546However, atop my love of historical combat I am even more into battlefield pathology reports from ancient and medieval grave excavations. Fascinating stuff!

Who doesn't love it:)?

Once I get REH's Conan RPG (2D20) one of the house rules / mods I'm intending on creating is a realistic damage system.

I'm thinking along the lines of different injury types, effects and durations based on the type of weapon and hit location, as well as the quality of the hit vs the resilience of the victim.  

I'm also thinking that this system could be used generically with any RPG or genre of RPG with either no or very minor modifications.

Rgrove- you could always use your experience and write up system neutral guidelines for applying realistic injury results to a game.

Quote from: CRKrueger;936429It actually does fit well, except for healing.  

The n00b with 4pts Meat, 4pts Endurance/Skill gets reduced to 2pts Meat, he's up tomorrow.  

The veteran with 4pts Meat, 84pts Endurance/Skill get reduced to 2pts Meat, he'll be up after the next harvest.

The rookie took one hit/scrape/near miss/round of combat.

The veteran waded through possibly dozens, or more to get down to their last.

Least in D&D we thought of it as partially a factor of being mentally drained as well as physically exhausted. The low level "kids" bounce back from being trounced pretty quick. But the seasoned warrior needs alot more time to work up the urge to go back at it even.

Or other explanations why. Though in AD&D at least once you hit or pass 30hp everyone heals up the same no matter the level (not counting CON). Also in AD&D the rookie is more likely to go to zero HP which means a whole week of being a bedridden invalid. Or just plain dead in BX.

Quote from: Omega;936613The rookie took one hit/scrape/near miss/round of combat.

The veteran waded through possibly dozens, or more to get down to their last.

Least in D&D we thought of it as partially a factor of being mentally drained as well as physically exhausted. The low level "kids" bounce back from being trounced pretty quick. But the seasoned warrior needs alot more time to work up the urge to go back at it even.

Or other explanations why. Though in AD&D at least once you hit or pass 30hp everyone heals up the same no matter the level (not counting CON). Also in AD&D the rookie is more likely to go to zero HP which means a whole week of being a bedridden invalid. Or just plain dead in BX.

I didn't say there was no difference or overall effect, I said the healing rates were goofy.  If you assume the last few hit points are meat damage before you fall, then those should heal slower then all the Fatigue on top of it.   But, we're finding out that the optimum recovery time for a Marathon runner is what, 6 weeks, so maybe Gary was on to something after all.

Quote from: Bluddworth;936569Once I get REH's Conan RPG (2D20) one of the house rules / mods I'm intending on creating is a realistic damage system.

I'm thinking along the lines of different injury types, effects and durations based on the type of weapon and hit location, as well as the quality of the hit vs the resilience of the victim.  

I'm also thinking that this system could be used generically with any RPG or genre of RPG with either no or very minor modifications.

When you finish it, post it up.