I think you're being a bit unfair in that you're essentially comparing a "new" system to an old one which you've been using for decades, for which you have a gazillion supplements, and which you still love.
Even assuming SWN's system was "objectively" better than Traveller, it'd still lose to it, in your case, simply because of the acquired familiarity.

That said, it's perfectly fine not to like SWN. But I think it being "D&D in space" is a significant part of the reason of its success. I know I'm currently using the Godbound beta system for my Exalted campaign specifically because it lets me prep my session in less than half an hour, statting enemies in under one minute, and a part of this is because its "D&Dism" is so familiar to me.

Yeah the game is pretty much advertised as "D&D in space" so it seems a bit naff to criticize it because it's "just" D&D in space.  It's what it is.  If that's not what you want you'll probably not be all that crazy about it...

Personally, I like the setting.  I think it creates a nice foundation for a sandbox campaign of exploration.  I also like how it ties in with Other Dust.  I also like Crawford's writing...

Quote from: Luca;849406But I think it being "D&D in space" is a significant part of the reason of its success.

A lot of players like the D&D in Space idea. But would they like the setting of SWN? Or do settings even matter, as long as it's played like D&D at least?

The setting, sector generation and general premise of the game is fantastic.  When it came time to actually play it we ended up using d100/BRP.  I get the appeal of D&D in space, but we wanted something a little different.

Quote from: NathanIW;849432The setting, sector generation and general premise of the game is fantastic.  When it came time to actually play it we ended up using d100/BRP.  I get the appeal of D&D in space, but we wanted something a little different.

The free edition of SWN I have uses 2d6 rolls for skill checks. Doesn't seem normal for a D&D mechanic. Is the d20 used more in another version of the game?

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;849422Or do settings even matter, as long as it's played like D&D at least?

I'm running my 5e Eberron campaigns in the style of James Bond and Shadowrun. The D&D rules have posed no significant genre problem, but It would be pretty difficult to do Bond in most other D&D settings. I'm inclined to say setting matters a great deal regardless of the overall style and goal of the rules.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;849433The free edition of SWN I have uses 2d6 rolls for skill checks. Doesn't seem normal for a D&D mechanic. Is the d20 used more in another version of the game?

The d20 is used for attack rolls, and 'saving throws'. Perhaps other rolls as well (I can't remember, off-hand). The 2d6 skill check system was grafted on to that D&D-ish baseline.

Quote from: K Peterson;849441The d20 is used for attack rolls, and 'saving throws'. Perhaps other rolls as well (I can't remember, off-hand). The 2d6 skill check system was grafted on to that D&D-ish baseline.

Ok. Just read the combat section. d20 and armor class stuff. SWN looks like a mish mash of games.

Quote from: jeff37923;849336I have access to the entire Traveller back catalog via CD-ROM.

Everytime I hear that I'm torn between laughing and banging my head against the wall, or both.

I mean I realize this is the game with boarding sabers, computers the size of SUVs and spaceships that are half gas-tank, but Jesus Wept open a goddamn DTRPG account.  :rotfl: :banghead:

Someone has to know how much they spend on CDs and postage.  Jeff and Driscoll, you guys gotta tell Mark the internet isn't AOL anymore.

Who knows, if Miller joins the 90's, then maybe ADB might decide to have their whole business on something other then 12 year old Macintosh floppies.

Quote from: Luca;849406That said, it's perfectly fine not to like SWN.

Thank you for granting me permission. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Luca;849406But I think it being "D&D in space" is a significant part of the reason of its success. I know I'm currently using the Godbound beta system for my Exalted campaign specifically because it lets me prep my session in less than half an hour, statting enemies in under one minute, and a part of this is because its "D&Dism" is so familiar to me.

Quote from: Zevious Zoquis;849408Yeah the game is pretty much advertised as "D&D in space" so it seems a bit naff to criticize it because it's "just" D&D in space.  It's what it is.  If that's not what you want you'll probably not be all that crazy about it...

Quote from: NathanIW;849432I get the appeal of D&D in space, but we wanted something a little different.

Except when I want to play D&D, then I will go play D&D. I am uninterested in D&D in space. If I want science fantasy space opera, I will go play WEG d6 Star Wars. D&D in space leaves me completely cold for the reasons that I have listed in my OP. There are more rule mechanics out there than just D&D.

I had a feeling some of you reading this would declare badwrongfun just because I do not like something that is considered an OSR darling.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;849433The free edition of SWN I have uses 2d6 rolls for skill checks. Doesn't seem normal for a D&D mechanic. Is the d20 used more in another version of the game?

It looks like it is based upon the skill use rules of Classic Traveller and Mongoose Traveller.

Quote from: CRKrueger;849504Everytime I hear that I'm torn between laughing and banging my head against the wall, or both.

I mean I realize this is the game with boarding sabers, computers the size of SUVs and spaceships that are half gas-tank, but Jesus Wept open a goddamn DTRPG account.  :rotfl: :banghead:

Someone has to know how much they spend on CDs and postage.  Jeff and Driscoll, you guys gotta tell Mark the internet isn't AOL anymore.

Who knows, if Miller joins the 90's, then maybe ADB might decide to have their whole business on something other then 12 year old Macintosh floppies.

Thank you for that "Get off my lawn!" moment. :rolleyes:

I do have a DTRPG account and use it, thank you. Or did you think I just pulled that news that they had been hacked out of my ass?

That, and your cluelessness shows with the "SUV sized computer" crack. The technology in Traveller has evolved with the times. Computers in Classic Traveller were large, and have gotten progressively smaller in later editions depending on the tech level of the manufacturing world. Low tech electronics are big, high tech electronics are small.

That is the problem with a science fiction game that is based on hard or medium-hard science. As times change and new information is learned, the science and technology changes. Then you have to decide whether or not to incorporate that in rule changes.

If you just give lip service to the science because you are playing D&D in Space, then none of that matters.

Quote from: jeff37923;849506Except when I want to play D&D, then I will go play D&D. I am uninterested in D&D in space.

I think I could house rule D&D in space to work in a way I would like, but I already have rules that I know work, so I decided just to sub them in instead.

QuoteIf I want science fantasy space opera, I will go play WEG d6 Star Wars.

We had our SWN game turn out a lot more like Star Trek the Original Series than Star Wars.  It really was about arriving at a new system and not having any idea what was there and then doing our best to deal with it.  While you do have the unknown of the outer rim systems in Star Wars, the setting as a whole is a lot more about dealing with known elements than exploring the unknown.  I could totally see using WEG d6 SW (or Mini6 or the d6 space or whatever) and the sector generation from SWN to make a cool d6 based exploration game.

QuoteD&D in space leaves me completely cold for the reasons that I have listed in my OP. There are more rule mechanics out there than just D&D.

...
[from original post]
classes and levels do not make sense to me and combat is never able to adequately emulate the lethality of non-medieval weaponry. It is better genre emulation to have multiple prior careers with a range of skills showing experience and not classes with levels. Combat does not handle guns, explosives, or energy weapons well and instead of armor making someone harder to hit, it should make someone harder to damage.

All the reasons we went with BRP/d100.  One person I play with has bad memories of d6 Star Wars (he had a terrible, terrible GM and to this day can't stand playing the game even though he knows and admits nothing about the bad play had to do with the rules of the game and entirely had to do with a jerk, but the association is still there), otherwise I would totally go that route.

The real beauty of Stars Without Number is not the rehashed D&D approach (which is totally fine for people who want that), but everything else that is in the book.  Combine it with the structure generation system in Hulks and Horrors and the various sci-fi random generators on donjon.bin.sh and then use your favorite rules and you'll have a great space exploration game with loads of neat tools for supporting the GM in content generation.

Quote from: jeff37923;849506Thank you for granting me permission. :rolleyes:

Hey, don't take it the wrong way. That sentence was explicitly inserted to try and not give the impression I was railing against you because you dared to dislike SWN. Looks like it failed, oh well.

Quote from: Luca;849525Hey, don't take it the wrong way. That sentence was explicitly inserted to try and not give the impression I was railing against you because you dared to dislike SWN. Looks like it failed, oh well.

By the way, welcome to the site Luca, and I mean that.

It's a rough place at times, but that's part of what makes it useful.