Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1080662On the contrary, suicide rates are on the increase, especially among white males.

Individual suicide rates, only from 1999-2017, and only in the U.S., and mostly in rural populations are indeed increasing slightly, and that's certainly an issue with complicated reasons, but that's not what I wrote.

I said all violence, even when including suicides (so all types of violence combined) has been decreasing worldwide for centuries and possibly even millenia. The suicide rate you cite is not high enough to affect overall violence as a whole across the globe or even in the U.S. during that cited time period. So again, even when you include suicide, violence has been steadily decreasing.

I never said that individual suicides rates in the U.S. from 1999-2017 was decreasing, so nothing contrary at all, and hopefully that's more clear.

And even more interesting is that the U.S ranks a paltry 27th or 34th (depending on the source) globally in suicides per capita.

Quote from: Kael;1080667Individual suicide rates, only from 1999-2017, and only in the U.S., and mostly in rural populations are indeed increasing slightly, and that's certainly an issue with complicated reasons, but that's not what I wrote.

I said all violence, even when including suicides (so all types of violence combined) has been decreasing worldwide for centuries and possibly even millenia. The suicide rate you cite is not high enough to affect overall violence as a whole across the globe or even in the U.S. during that cited time period. So again, even when you include suicide, violence has been steadily decreasing.

I never said that individual suicides rates in the U.S. from 1999-2017 was decreasing, so nothing contrary at all, and hopefully that's more clear.

And even more interesting is that the U.S ranks a paltry 27th or 34th (depending on the source) globally in suicides per capita.

You could have just said you were wrong instead of trying to dance and smearing your response with even more useless lying bullshit then you started with.

Quote from: CRKrueger;1080674You could have just said you were wrong instead of trying to dance and smearing your response with even more useless lying bullshit then you started with.

Except I wasn't wrong, lying, or bullshitting so ...

It's usefulness is not for me to judge but it does help to shut up all the chicken littles out there screaming that the world is coming to an end due to rampant, unchecked violence which is obviously false. Today is the safest the world has ever been.

Anyway, I simply clarified for the reading-comprehension impaired, such as yourself. I made the distinction because many studies don't include individual suicide as a "violent crime" while others do include it as part of an overall "societal violence" metric.

"All violence, including suicides, across the world has been in steady decline" is a true statement whether you like it or not. Feel free to cite sources to the contrary as I'm always willing to learn something new and admit that I'm wrong.

If the world has indeed becoming a more violent place over the course of history, that's news to me and I'd like to read up on that.

And citing an 18-year trend in one country doesn't change the historical trend of declining violence (yes, even when including suicide) across the world. That said, I do understand that AA could read it that way, so hopefully I've cleared that part up for those with better reading skills.

Quote from: Kael;1080684It's usefulness is not for me to judge but it does help to shut up all the chicken littles out there screaming that the world is coming to an end due to rampant, unchecked violence which is obviously false. Today is the safest the world has ever been.

One of the many traits the far left and far right share is a belief that we're trending towards catastrophe. Not surprising when you consider that extreme ideologies attract the anxious and unhappy.

Quote from: Haffrung;1080706One of the many traits the far left and far right share is a belief that we're trending towards catastrophe. Not surprising when you consider that extreme ideologies attract the anxious and unhappy.

I couldn't agree more. Both extremes of the "Culture War" drive me insane. And fwiw, I basically agree with everything Anon Adderlan wrote, as well, just in case it was unclear.

Came in to read the RPG discussion. Read first page. Skipped to last page.

...found the topic shifted from post-D&D hobby market to suicide rates and culture war.

That was certainly an... interesting juxtaposition.

People, this is a WARNING: this thread is not to discuss anything outside of the RPG hobby. No thread on this forum is for discussing anything outside of the RPG Hobby.

So unless you're talking about suicide in the RPG hobby, you had better stop or I'll have to start bannings.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1080889People, this is a WARNING: this thread is not to discuss anything outside of the RPG hobby. No thread on this forum is for discussing anything outside of the RPG Hobby.

So unless you're talking about suicide in the RPG hobby, you had better stop or I'll have to start bannings.

Bringing that back on topic of RPG then. At least way back various moral guardian groups tried to pin suicides on D&D and RPGs. But turned out that playing actually seemed to reduce the chances.

And back on the topic topic.

Never underestimate a self interest groups ability to at least try their damndest to co-opt something, which invariably ends in that something either declining or actually ending.

You cannot be complacent that D&D will survive and do nothing. You have to push back, resist the takeover. Otherwise you get... taken over.

Quote from: Omega;1080906You cannot be complacent that D&D will survive and do nothing. You have to push back, resist the takeover. Otherwise you get... taken over.

And since it is unlikely any of us here can gain a controlling interest in Hasbro to resist said takeover, the only viable path is to produce non-SJW alternatives so that when the inevitable D&D SJW edition is released there are plenty of alternatives for people to turn to.

In other words, we need to be looking to create "The Orville" of D&D.

Quote from: Chris24601;1080947And since it is unlikely any of us here can gain a controlling interest in Hasbro to resist said takeover, the only viable path is to produce non-SJW alternatives so that when the inevitable D&D SJW edition is released there are plenty of alternatives for people to turn to.

In other words, we need to be looking to create "The Orville" of D&D.

I am in favor of this idea.

Quote from: Omega;1080906Never underestimate a self interest groups ability to at least try their damndest to co-opt something, which invariably ends in that something either declining or actually ending.

You cannot be complacent that D&D will survive and do nothing. You have to push back, resist the takeover. Otherwise you get... taken over.

Well, I'm running D&D games and discussing them and developing material - but I pretty sure I'm seen as the side that is supposedly taking things over.

I have no issues with Pundit's rant from the OP - I think people should create their own D&D material, so that even if the mainstream of the current D&D edition passes you by, there should still be the OSR, Pathfinder, and create new movements as people see fit.

I think there should be SJW D&D for SJW-leaning folks, conservative D&D for conservative folks, and heck, Alathon is welcome to make his own ethno-nationalist D&D branch. It's not like there has to be only one.

Year 2022

"D&D is dead, long live D&D!"

pd: RPGPundit's point is kinda brilliant.

Quote from: jhkim;1080978conservative D&D for conservative folks.

  We like to call that "2nd Edition."

Quote from: jhkim;1080978I think there should be SJW D&D for SJW-leaning folks, conservative D&D for conservative folks, and heck, Alathon is welcome to make his own ethno-nationalist D&D branch. It's not like there has to be only one.

I'm sure the folks over there at Hasbro are rejoicing at the thought of a Neo-Nazi D&D. (Sarcasm, just to cover my bases here.)
Well, the fact is: it's their brand. They get to decide what kind of content gets attached to it - and they have to live with their choices, either way. Just as I have to live with mine.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1081016I'm sure the folks over there at Hasbro are rejoicing at the thought of a Neo-Nazi D&D. (Sarcasm, just to cover my bases here.)
Well, the fact is: it's their brand. They get to decide what kind of content gets attached to it - and they have to live with their choices, either way. Just as I have to live with mine.

By D&D branches, I mean like Pathfinder, Castles & Crusades, Swords & Wizardry, and so forth - which are not controlled by Hasbro.