This thread is exactly why I love this place. It's an insane asylum and you're all batshit crazy poo flinging chimps, but hot damn, its refreshing to see everyone using their freedom of speech. That will be missed in the coming years.

SJWs are free to make SJW RPGs. They've become a niche on Kickstarter. I get the Kickstarter Games email and its regularly laughably SJW Pravda 4 Games, plus the latest CMON style overhyped boardgame. However, as an advocate for free speech, free expression and capitalism, I support everyone's right to create and sell, and that includes SJWs. But its sad to see the SJW disease poison every platform.

I don't know the right path regarding SJWs and D&D.

Personally, I've written off WotC. But I acknowledge they are the 500 lb non-binary gorilla in our hobby. To some extent, how WotC goes, so does the hobby as a whole. Thus, I can understand RPGPundit and others who feel the need to fight for the future of D&D to be non-SJW.

But since we don't control WotC, I doubt we can influence WotC, especially while 5e is making good money. I'm sure WotC brass is being sold the story by Mearls & Crew that being woke makes them gobs of money, so mo woke = mo money. And maybe it is? Maybe SJWs are the new D&D market. I don't pretend to know what demographic is actually buying WotC's books.

All of US society is fracturing because politics has become culture, so of course our hobby will fracture as well. Gamers will either play at tables that ban political yabbering, or gamers will self-segregate into tables of only people with similar politics.

Quote from: S'mon;1081545The secret lies in not having a TV, not regularly playing video games, and not spending too much time on Youtube or the newspapers.

Video games > TV > YouTube > Internet Forums > Drug Use > Newspapers

Quote from: Jaeger;1081548No they don't, no I'm not, and no it doesn't when I am advocating we defend the RPG hobby as a whole.

Took me a bit but I see what you are trying to do here.

You keep using words like genocide, and murder, when I am talking about the RPG hobby.

Nothing I am advocating is in the same ballpark as genocide and murder. Not even in the same reality.

And could not be construed as such by any reasonable person.

You keep trying to say my words are equivalent to physical violence, when I have not advocated physical violence of any kind.

SJW's use a similar tactic. They equate the words of their opposition with 'literally hurting people' so that they feel justified in using physical violence as a response to people that they disagree with. Antifa does this in their rhetoric all the time.

Why are you doing it?

Jesus H Christ

Deciding who gets to be allowed at your table and your thr equivalent of Pol Pot enforcer during the worst years of his regime. Some SJWs are certifiably crazy imo.

Quote from: Jaeger;1081548Why are you doing it?

Because he/she/xe is an SJW.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1081541Counterpoint, whatever your stance, you better accomplish that by playing in a session Friday night than posting on internet forums.

I played X-Wing on thursday, and I'm playing Starfinder society today. Do I get credit even though it's not specifically friday?

Quote from: S'mon;1081545The secret lies in not having a TV, not regularly playing video games, and not spending too much time on Youtube or the newspapers.

I play video games, paint miniatures, work, watch TV, putter around on youtube and the internet and do table top games. (Not necessarily all in the same day)

Quote from: Spinachcat;1081551This thread is exactly why I love this place. It's an insane asylum and you're all batshit crazy poo flinging chimps, but hot damn, its refreshing to see everyone using their freedom of speech. That will be missed in the coming years.

SJWs are free to make SJW RPGs. They've become a niche on Kickstarter. I get the Kickstarter Games email and its regularly laughably SJW Pravda 4 Games, plus the latest CMON style overhyped boardgame. However, as an advocate for free speech, free expression and capitalism, I support everyone's right to create and sell, and that includes SJWs. But its sad to see the SJW disease poison every platform.

I don't know the right path regarding SJWs and D&D.

Personally, I've written off WotC. But I acknowledge they are the 500 lb non-binary gorilla in our hobby. To some extent, how WotC goes, so does the hobby as a whole. Thus, I can understand RPGPundit and others who feel the need to fight for the future of D&D to be non-SJW.

But since we don't control WotC, I doubt we can influence WotC, especially while 5e is making good money. I'm sure WotC brass is being sold the story by Mearls & Crew that being woke makes them gobs of money, so mo woke = mo money. And maybe it is? Maybe SJWs are the new D&D market. I don't pretend to know what demographic is actually buying WotC's books.

I think we've made some measure of progress already. When this latest bout of social justice started, post 9/11 (Paul Vanderklay on youtube has made the observation that 9/11 was the polarization event for a lot of this identity politics) it seemed like everyone was on board, and there were no dissenters, but dissent has been slowly building up. Social justice relied heavily on a sort of manipulation of the overton window, controlling which opinions were "acceptable" in the community. But that has changed.

The biggest first step is to say "No" when the SJWs get out of hand. If someone in your group starts haranging about how straight white men are sexual terrorists, you can recognize the politics in that statement, and dissent and/or ditch the group.

QuoteAll of US society is fracturing because politics has become culture, so of course our hobby will fracture as well. Gamers will either play at tables that ban political yabbering, or gamers will self-segregate into tables of only people with similar politics.

True. My hope is that the "get woke, go broke" effect will influence companies like WOTC to focus on games and less on partisan politics.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1081527Don't know if my reasoning is the same as S'mon's, but my answer to this is that I don't want to play with her/him/it because when she/he/it said she was willing to just sit at my table and play, without dragging in the other stuff--I don't believe her/him/it.  I don't need much credibility to sit down and at least try a game with someone, but I need more than she/he/it has with me on this issue.

Such credibility issues are case by case, and can of course change over time.

When choosing people to game with, I believe the following. Like viking, SJW is an activity, not an identity. You can play at my table or I will play at yours if you leave your SJW activities at the door, even if you are a Warrior for (a) cause(s) I believe in. While there has been one person, girlfriend of a girlfriend of mine, who could not stop complaining about the setting I was running and eventually left the game, that has not often been a problem. Obviously, just as there were Norsemen who were nearly full-time raiiders, there are some nearly full-time SJWs and, living in New Haven, I knew some of them. None of them were ever interested in gaming and their comments about gaming were not heeded.

Quote from: SHARK;1081509Greetings!

Exactly, Gnomeworks. Thank you. You understand perfectly. I'm certainly not some "perpetually offended snowflake" as Kael accused me of. Every veteran I know that sees the football players "taking a knee" believe the same way I do. The players are being rude, insulting, and disrespectful to our Flag, our National Anthem, and our military.
Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I was in the Army and probably before you were born and I don't feel that way. The protests were never about the flag, the military or veterans. They were  about the behavior of some police officers and departments. Politicians promoted the idea that you should be offended. I haven't cared about the NFL since they started making pass defense too difficult and the teams are privately owned and can choose to discipline players however they choose but I am not going to get worked up about the protests. Rugby and college football (roll, tide, ROLL) are better than the NFL game anyway.

Quote from: jhkim;1081523Can we take the NFL or other stuff to a separate thread in Pundit's forum, or just drop it? It really doesn't belong here in the RPG forum.

Yes, I agree. Consider it dropped on my end. My apologies to the thread.

I unfortunately made the mistake of engaging with a mentally-ill Selachimorpha who feels it necessary to shove his off-topic politics into other people's faces at every turn. I'll try to do a better job of ignoring the raving lunatics who make everything political all the time like the social retards they are and claims to speak for an entire branch of service.

Quote from: Kael;1081578Yes, I agree. Consider it dropped on my end. My apologies to the thread.

I unfortunately made the mistake of engaging with a mentally-ill Selachimorpha who feels it necessary to shove his off-topic politics into other people's faces at every turn. I'll try to do a better job of ignoring the raving lunatics who make everything political all the time like the social retards they are and claims to speak for an entire branch of service.

Stay classy Kael!

To me, as long as we are consistent, then things work out fine. For instance, if some psychopath sits down at my table and goes on a red bull-fueled rant about the NFL protests and border walls, they can fuck off and leave my table.

On the other hand, if some sociopath sits down at my table and starts raving about all white people (or whomever) being the devil, they can fuck off too, and leave my table.

If I hated myself and wanted a table that talks incessant politics, then everyone is welcome to be an annoying shit. I think it's basically that simple.

As far as WOTC is concerned, if they want to put rainbows and unicorns, or swastikas and confederate flags on every page, who gives a flying fuck? Just don't give them any money and move on. So far, WOTC hasn't done anything to me to warrant a boycott, but any other potential customers and Hasbro alike are free to do as they please.

Quote from: S'mon;1081580Stay classy Kael!

Where's the fun in that?? If he's gonna dish it out, he should be able to take a few bites as well. I have nothing against Shark personally at all, I just very much enjoy his irony. If it turns out that he's a Russian bot, I wouldn't be at all surprised (I kid....sorta.)

Anyway, I'll fully admit this place is pretty fun/wheels off, lol.

And just generally-speaking for myself, I don't have the same type of delusional, conspiratorial paranoia that many seem to possess. For instance, I'm just not one those people that thinks Fox News is trying to make everyone a racist anymore than I think that CNN is trying to turn every newborn gay.

This whole culture war thing is overblown to me, but what do I know, maybe the world is a shit show after all and I'm just oblivious to it.

I simply think the media does a good job of pitting people against each other to get eyeballs, garner attention, and rake in money. Both sides do this equally and most folks are very susceptible to it.

Quote from: Jaeger;1081548No they don't, no I'm not, and no it doesn't when I am advocating we defend the RPG hobby as a whole.

From what?

QuoteNothing I am advocating is in the same ballpark as genocide and murder. Not even in the same reality.

That's why it's called an analogy. Which is a form of counterfactual. Like playing a game.

QuoteYou keep trying to say my words are equivalent to physical violence, when I have not advocated physical violence of any kind.

No, I said they are the hobby version of it. That does not make the equivalent.

You don't like being backed into a corner by your own words, so you insert equivocation to claim a moral superiority that doesn't exist rather than face the truth that you're behaving just like the people you decry.

QuoteSJW's use a similar tactic. They equate the words of their opposition with 'literally hurting people' so that they feel justified in using physical violence as a response to people that they disagree with. Antifa does this in their rhetoric all the time.

Too bad that's not what I did here.

QuoteWhy are you doing it?

To watch as you use a SJW argument to try and remove legitimacy from someone else... like the people you claim to want to defend against.

I haven't changed any of my terms, yet you desperately dance to create new ones to explain why you think you're justified.

Quote from: sureshot;1081566Jesus H Christ

Deciding who gets to be allowed at your table and your thr equivalent of Pol Pot enforcer during the worst years of his regime. Some SJWs are certifiably crazy imo.

Yeah. I wonder why Jaeger felt so threatened.