Quote from: grubmanUnrelated to any specific game...

I mean seriously...I understand trying to convince people that games you like are great!  But, why try to convince people that like, love, or are at least open minded that a game sucks...and they have no reason to like it (or are at least stupid or inferior for not thinking it sucks)?

We see it over and over on the internet.  What is there to be gained in this action?

I think most people who do this would argue that they're trying to make others "see (Game X) how it really is," ie. they lack the requisite empathy and imagination to understand that not everyone shares their preferences. For some of them I think it's a genuine mystery why people don't think in the same way that they do, and they'll keep hammering the point home as a way of trying to rectify the perceived problem. I think it stems from a lack of basic socialisation, and unfortunately the internet is awash with it.

Also, there can be deeper emotional issues at play. Agressively mocking RPG systems and their players might only be symptoms.

When someone engages in anti-social behaviour the question needs to be "What's their payoff for acting like this?" If you can get an honest answer (which is nigh impossible with online personas representing individuals who are likely in denial of their problems) then you can maybe start exploring the underlying issues. Good luck with that.

So, in brief, the best advice I can give is to try and ignore it and move on. There's nothing to be gained but frustration when engaging with people of this type. You might be looking to achieve resoloution via debate, whilst they're simply looking to get an emotional fix from arguing and trading insults, whether it be passively or overtly. Nothing good can come of it.

"Why do people try to convince others that games suck?"

So you'll know who to stop listening to.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!"Why do people try to convince others that games suck?"

So you'll know who to stop listening to.

I hadn't even considered that, but you may be right.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityFew people realize that in RL Elliot actually is a six-foot tall rabbit.

Only I can see him, though, which occasionally complicates things, even in the Bay Area.

I can't tell if this is a reference to Harvey or Donnie Darko.

Quote from: LancerSigmund! I am glad to see you on this thread taking up the 3e banner and fighting my evil forces of darkness.




In response, to my wording- To directly quote myself here:


AND



Now does that sound like someone arrogantly claiming that EVERYONE is happy with D&D until they find other games? I concede that some may still find 3e to be the best game ever, even after trying out other games.
I am many things, but Ron Edwards I am not.




Depends on which iteration of D&D, man. I enjoy Basic D&D, 1e, and 2ndEd.
3.x is where my problems lie. I am not a WotC hater, though, and if 4e hits my fancy, I'd be glad to spend my hard-earned money on that.

EDIT: I have bought and read True 20 recently. It is a marked improvement over base 3e, IMHO.

I was only pointing out the wording of the thread I quoted. Notice I didn't say that you always are saying all people, only in that quote. It was just as an example of why some of us are seeing what we're seeing in your posts (and other's posts as well), when other posts are quite reasonable. I didn't really think you were trying to send that message which is why I asked. Posts like it make me question your other posts where you're more accepting of other people's preferences, it seems like mixed messages to me.

Grats in getting True20, it's a diamond in the rough I feel.

Quote from: walkerpWhen did he say all people?

In the quote in my post, obviously. That's the way it comes across and why so much flak gets caught seems to me. I'm sure it won't seem that way to you though.

Quote from: beejazzI can't tell if this is a reference to Harvey or Donnie Darko.

It's not a reference to either of those. It's a reference to me. Got any carrots?

He loves playing Bunnies & Burrows.  

I do try to convince him it sucks, but he's just not into trying out new things.

Quote from: David Johansenhonestly?  guys?  as an avowed d20 / D&D hater I have to say that D&D is too mediocre to get into the top 100 games that suck.  Sorry, but I'm pretty sure we can come up with at least 100 games that suck more than D&D.

That could be 4e's marketing catch phrase "Now in the top 100 sucky games list!"  But I doubt they'll manage it.

With contenders like KABAL and Intersteller Elite Combat and Meta Scape and Arenson's Adventures In Fantasy, D&D just doesn't suck enough to make the list.

See, Lancer, walker... here's some examples for ya. This troll here is so boring as to be barely worth mentioning. It's making me yawn just looking at it, and I gotta go to work, so onward...

Quote from: JimLotFPThree things.

1. It is (should be) an intellectual exercise. By pointing out that game x sucks, and most importantly why it sucks, the writer explores, organizes, and reinforces his thoughts about his own gaming preferences. What something is not is just as important as what something is.

2. It's fun watching other people get pissy about opinions. Really, really fun. Some people on the internet pretend like their civil rights have been violated if someone is allowed to disparage their gaming preferences.

3. Sometimes, suckas gotta know.

See, now this troll at least has a couple things with which to get ahold of it and squeeze until the puss comes out. The bit about using the "why it sucks" part as some flimsy excuse to insult people's preferences. The pseudo-intellectual bit about "What something is not is just as important as what something is.", much better. This way one can pull examples that might actually seem relevant in later posts. The last bit though kinda ruins it, takes it back into the toilet where it belongs.

I do it because my tastes are generally more refined than others', and if I don't share my views how will you ever learn?

note: I invite those whose sarcasm meters failed to check my posting history. I have often explained why I don't like something, but never to convince someone that they should also think a game sucks. I have, however, found myself trying to convince someone that my personal opinion about a game's suckage or rockage is valid even if it disagrees with them. I do that for two reasons:

1) it's fun

2) if I'm arguing on the internet with strangers, I'm not arguing in the living room with my wife.

Quote from: Sigmund. I didn't really think you were trying to send that message which is why I asked. Posts like it make me question your other posts where you're more accepting of other people's preferences, it seems like mixed messages to me.

But that's the point, Sigmund. I never said ever in any of my posts that ALL or EVERY group should ditch D&D for other games. I am not sending mixed messages. People are just taking things out of context and reading into things that aren't there. In this thread and the other 3e thread, I specifically use qualifying terms like "many" or "some" people, or leave it at "people." That some posters add extra flavor to my posts, and pass it off as statements I have made, is unfortunate and unfair.

QuoteGrats in getting True20, it's a diamond in the rough I feel.

It's a bit experimental. But I think it has the right idea in getting rid of AoO and simplifying much of the chaff. I am not particularly crazy about the wealth mechanic though.

Quote from: SeanchaiNo, at you. There's a reason that out of all the folks who said they didn't like 3e in the other thread, you and walkerp are drawing heat.

Seanchai

Umm.... too bad?:shrug:

When will some people learn that a critique on their favorite game/song/movie/DVD/food (whatever) does not constitute a personal attack on their own person?  Even if Bob expresses dislike at something Mary likes, it doesn't mean that Bob thinks that Mary is lower than dung as a human being. Bob and Mary can still be friends, have a beer together, make love to each other, and respect each other as people.

You have said I have "insulted" people. This is curious to me unless you interpret expressed dislike of one of your favorite games to be a personal slight. I challenge you to find a post where I resorted to name-calling, cussed people out, or ad hominem. When have I ever called you a "dick" like you called me?

I have said 3e sucks. Who cares? It's a freakin' game. I didn't say you suck.

Quote from: LancerUmm.... too bad?:shrug:

When will some people learn that a critique on their favorite game/song/movie/DVD/food (whatever) does not constitute a personal attack on their own person?  Even if Bob expresses dislike at something Mary likes, it doesn't mean that Bob thinks that Mary is lower than dung as a human being. Bob and Mary can still be friends, have a beer together, make love to each other, and respect each other as people.

You have said I have "insulted" people. This is curious to me unless you interpret expressed dislike of one of your favorite games to be a personal slight. I challenge you to find a post where I resorted to name-calling, cussing people out, or ad hominem. When have I ever called you a "dick" like you called me?

I have said 3e sucks. Who cares? It's a freakin' game. I didn't say you suck.

Look - when I agree with Seanchai, you know there must be something to think about. Given his quotes piece in your response (I don't have full context), I have to agree.

I don't care if you think 3e sucks or not. Matters not to me if you shout it from the highest mountain top or quietly and politely say so. In the parts of the discussion where you actually discuss parts of 3e that you don't like or don't fit your preference, I agree with some of them. However...

That's not what people are trying to tell you. They are, if I can be so bold as to speak for others, trying to tell you that when you say the people who play 3e only do because they haven't tried anything else, and/or there's something wrong if you do not wish to try something else, you've crossed into territory that's gone far beyond saying 3e sucks.

You don't want to think about that - that you might have (inadvertently, though I have my doubts given your reaction) said something insulting - so you write it off as some kind of hypersensitive over-reaction to you saying 3e sucks. I regret to inform you that you are wrong in this reading of the situation.

But, like walker has from his first post on this subject here   lo these many moons ago, you refuse to understand the difference between the two.

Quote from: James J SkachThat's not what people are trying to tell you. They are, if I can be so bold as to speak for others, trying to tell you that when you say the people who play 3e only do because they haven't tried anything else, and/or there's something wrong if you do not wish to try something else, you've crossed into territory that's gone far beyond saying 3e sucks.

That would be great if I actually said those things (hint: bolded emphasis mine), James. But truth be told I didn't. That some like to snatch things out of context and take things that I say to an extreme, so be it. If your prerogative is to twist the meaning of my posts, have fun with it. You can either understand what I really was saying in my posts (Walker did no problem), or you can twist my words to support whatever "evil" perception you have of me. Either way, it's your call.

I am not going to continue to try explaining myself, because frankly, it isn't that important.