Quote from: BarefootGaijin;811049I just can't into Hero. I want to, but I glaze over (even with Hero designer and all that right to game play). This is a problem because I know a guy who loves it and thinks it is nice and light and quick to play. The go to system of choice for a quick game.

(I'll let you read that again a few times)

Meanwhile, learning other systems is pushing this GM/Player out of the comfort zone (even something I think is simple, Like Marvel Heroic/Cortext). This leads me to question familiarity and ease of use with a system and how that plays into OPs #feelings.

  I don't think what your friend says about HERO is that different from what Omega said upthread about AD&D. Familiarity and internalizing a system count for a lot in games, IMO, more than we may sometimes give credit for.

I've never believed in a Perfect System. Not even subjectively. All that matters is whether a system works well enough for one's group. Some might work better than others depending on setting, genre and players, to be sure, but so long as what you're using works well enough there's no reason to uproot the game and throw off everyone's groove so one of you can chase the bloody dragon.

I suppose I was lucky in a sense; I grew up gaming with an older brother who absolutely believed in the Perfect System. Over the years he ran games for us we must have tried at least a dozen different published systems plus a bunch of homebrews and custom adaptations. I can't begin to remember how many games we started, how many characters we made that everyone had just started really getting into when he'd discover some new hotness and we'd scrap everything and start again from square one. Meanwhile all the players cared about was slaying the dragon, saving the barmaid and splitting up the loot over ales back at the tavern.

On the one hand, it sucked to see so many games and characters go nowhere. On the other hand, I've never felt any urge to chase the dragon because I had a front row seat to someone else doing it. Altogether, I'll call it a win.

Re: D&D specifically, my preference is for Earthdawn (which was basically just FASA's attempt to make D&D make sense), but excepting 4e D&D has generally been perfectly serviceable to the task of having quasi-medieval fantasy adventures with a minimum of unimportant crap getting in the way. In particular, the more I read about 5e the more I like it; if it weren't for the cost of entry and the fact my group is a fair way into the first leg of a new campaign I'd totally be advocating we pick it up and drop Pathfinder.

Becoming more and more convinced here that Microlite-20 is all I'll ever need. Many of the sessions I've really liked have used that system. That said, I can see using Barbarians of Lemuria and its pulp equivalent, Dicey Tales, to cover many different types of games. Nothing simpler than 4 stats and career-based skills--roll 2d6, hit a 9. That's as simple as it gets, really.

Is there a good microlite 20 with simple magic?

Most of the ones are like 'minimal load fighter, thief, cleric/mu... oh, AND ALL THESE SPELLS.'

Funny that you want to lose complexity so settled on d&d 5e. That is a bit like wanting a simple sandwich and settling on turkey and crispy American bacon with chargrilled artichokes and a rocket salad on German rye bread with french Dijon mayonnaise and a strip of rochforte cheese. Toasted.... on one side.

If I want a simple system I will take the amber diceless engine and use 4 or 5 genre appropriate stats and some powers. Rules fit onto 2 sides of a4. Run this with star wars, musketeers, fables, whole load of shit.
Or try a tristat 2d6 target 8 game. Rules take up about a page.

2bits of bread, bacon, splash of ketchup...... sorted

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;811061I don't think what your friend says about HERO is that different from what Omega said upthread about AD&D. Familiarity and internalizing a system count for a lot in games, IMO, more than we may sometimes give credit for.

You are quite right. The above point I skimmed over, but that is certainly the general feeling I get.

Quote from: Will;811079Is there a good microlite 20 with simple magic?

Most of the ones are like 'minimal load fighter, thief, cleric/mu... oh, AND ALL THESE SPELLS.'

If you stick to the short lists in the Purest Essence, that's pretty simple. I've stuck to those basic spells in almost every iteration.

Quote from: CRKrueger;811057Hey Trechiron, was HARP the latest one you're referring to?  I loves me some SWN, but I have to represent by throwing up the horns for RQ6, have you tried that?

Yes and yes. :-) We were using Legend, but combat was trying. Just more details than we need. RQ6 is sexy and well designed and wonderfully written. Perhaps someday I'll give it a try again. It's actually not super complicated, but I would need to figure out a good "lots of bad guys" vs. the PCs system. For what I'm doing right now, and what I want to do to get back to FUN (for me) is play D&D 5e.

Quote from: jibbajibba;811080Funny that you want to lose complexity so settled on d&d 5e. ...

2bits of bread, bacon, splash of ketchup...... sorted

First, I own several Tri-Stat games. It's nifty, but I'm convinced the point-buy nature of character generation will trigger my revelation that I am NOT enjoying complex character generation. I don't like Amber Diceless RPG.(please don't hate on me, it's just not my cup of tea...)

Second, complexity is absolutely subjective! For me 5e is simpler than most of the games I've been "falling in love with". It also lines things up for character creation in a clear, simple manner. It has a broad audience, long-term history and popular appeal. I can modify it based on both the solid core and my previous OGL experience. I have a larger potential pool of players and a larger potential audience for my work. It's like a fuzzy happy WIN WIN in my manic obsessive rattled brain. :-)

So, there's more to this than just "settling" on a game. I had an epiphany that coalesced into "why are you fighting this Trentin? It's right in front of you!" kind of a moment. I see the fun in this game again.

I'm strongly considering, if I ever get around to running 5e, to just use Basic with a few things from the core game (namely, more archetypes and backgrounds)

QuoteI feel like I've held on to stubborn 'dislikes' of D&D-isms based on habit. Most of my issues are with the way players approached them.

That's pretty much been my discovery as well... carried over to realizing rules don't matter anywhere near as much as the people I play with.

D&D will never be my go-to game, that's BRP, but I'm playing lots of D&D of various sorts these days and it's grand to have let go and just be happy playing a game.

Quote from: Will;811116I'm strongly considering, if I ever get around to running 5e, to just use Basic with a few things from the core game (namely, more archetypes and backgrounds)

If I ever end up running 5e (not likely) then I'd be looking at the same... keep Backgrounds but no feats (I'd toss out skills as well) and go bare minimum... fast and loose.

Who the hell eats Bacon with Ketchup?

I guess it depends on one's idea of complexity. For myself I felt 4e was really simple and laid out in such a way to make things incredibly easy to adjudicate and play compared to the many - table referencing that I found in AD&D or the more fiddling rules of 3.5. Obviously YMMV.

Back about ten years ago I ran OD&D for my old gaming group as a lark.  Then I ran it a few more times, then when I lived in New York I ran it a few more...

... and at some point I realized, "This game is fun!"

REVELATION SEVEN:  This game is fun.

With WOTC's reissuing of at least some of the old stuff, it's available again for not a lot of money (I can't remember all the versions other than brown box, but the others are pretty cheap.)  And it's a fun game.

And that's all I really care about any more.  Which leads to

REVELATION EIGHT:  D&D IS A GAME.  If you treat "What will make a fun game that plays well" your primary lens, OD&D is an awesome game.

Quote from: CRKrueger;811124Who the hell eats Bacon with Ketchup?

*British person raises his hand and waves*

Though a good brown sauce would win 9/10.

Quote from: Batman;811129I guess it depends on one's idea of complexity. For myself I felt 4e was really simple and laid out in such a way to make things incredibly easy to adjudicate and play compared to the many - table referencing that I found in AD&D or the more fiddling rules of 3.5. Obviously YMMV.

Oh god yes. Give me "to hit armour class zero" and I can happily crunch numbers till the cows come home. Other people...? Like my Hero System thing inverted.