I wanted to buy some indiana jones rpg books by wdg, and i was shocked with their prices: 3000 dollars (yes, three thousand dollars), eight hundred dollars, three hundred dollars... There are other with a reasonable price, but i find this amazing.
Is this true to other rpg games? Are there collectors that will pay this for a rpg (indy, or not indy related)?
If by wdg you mean West End Games, I really should put my stuff up for sale.
Quote from: Godfather Punk;1067178If by wdg you mean West End Games, I really should put my stuff up for sale.
Yes, i mean West End Games, sorry for the mistake
I've seen the Indiana Jones RPG many years ago when it was new.
It wasn't that great, but I think the value is mostly due to its rarity rather than quality.
yes you see that with other games, no I don't think anyone is paying that (well maybe the $300 for a collection of books). I've run across this with other games, the best answer I've heard is the prices are set by an algorithm at sites like Amazon, and large ebay sellers, then others either out of ignorance or optimism set their prices based off of the insanely high prices. One of the less plausible, but not entirely tinfoil hat theories involves money laundering.
Last year I was looking for a copy of the most recent Cthulhu by Gaslight which has only been out of print for a couple of years. Prices were crazy, even now a quick search shows a few at $75-100, a bunch in the $100-300 range and then prices head upwards with one at $3200.
With patience I found a like new copy for $40 with free shipping.
I've even seen currently in print books with some insane pricing, the Gaslight Equipment Catalogue lists for $17.95, there are used copies being offered at $57...
Quote from: Toadmaster;1067189yes you see that with other games, no I don't think anyone is paying that (well maybe the $300 for a collection of books). I've run across this with other games, the best answer I've heard is the prices are set by an algorithm at sites like Amazon, and large ebay sellers, then others either out of ignorance or optimism set their prices based off of the insanely high prices. One of the less plausible, but not entirely tinfoil hat theories involves money laundering.
Last year I was looking for a copy of the most recent Cthulhu by Gaslight which has only been out of print for a couple of years. Prices were crazy, even now a quick search shows a few at $75-100, a bunch in the $100-300 range and then prices head upwards with one at $3200.
With patience I found a like new copy for $40 with free shipping.
I've even seen currently in print books with some insane pricing, the Gaslight Equipment Catalogue lists for $17.95, there are used copies being offered at $57...
This.
It takes too many man-hours to price things manually for a lot of companies so they have computers do it and for low volume books the computers can produce some really weird results at times since they don't have much information to go on.
Quote from: Daztur;1067191This.
It takes too many man-hours to price things manually for a lot of companies so they have computers do it and for low volume books the computers can produce some really weird results at times since they don't have much information to go on.
If two sellers use an automated pricing algorithm like that and each price their copy slightly higher than the other, feedback will eventually drive the price way up.
An actual example (http://www.michaeleisen.org/blog/?p=358), although one seller was attempting to undercut the other while the second was intentionally charging a higher price (perhaps because they didn't have it but could attract a buyer at the higher price and then buy it). In the most common case where automated pricing always targets slightly below the highest price, there would be no price-increasing feedback; presumably an automated pricing algorithm would have a minimum price.
Quote from: El cuervo;1067175Are there collectors that will pay this for a rpg (indy, or not indy related)?
Yes, but not for stuff like Indiana Jones.
Legit, valuable items - like early-ass Dungeons and Dragons boxed sets - can and do fetch thousands from a fairly limited group of individuals.
Quote from: El cuervo;1067175I wanted to buy some indiana jones rpg books by wdg, and i was shocked with their prices: 3000 dollars (yes, three thousand dollars), eight hundred dollars, three hundred dollars... There are other with a reasonable price, but i find this amazing.
Is this true to other rpg games? Are there collectors that will pay this for a rpg (indy, or not indy related)?
Stupid people like to put up stupid prices. This is common with EVERYTHING. I've seen games that ended print and a day later someone had one up for 200$. We've seen games put up for those prices that were still in print. This is nothing new.
My D&D 4th Edition PHB is ready to ship, for $300.00
Quote from: Thornhammer;1067208Legit, valuable items - like early-ass Dungeons and Dragons boxed sets - can and do fetch thousands from a fairly limited group of individuals.
Compared to collecting other things, the high end is actually pretty low. There are very few items that would bring $1k+, and most of those are, as you correctly said, early D&D related. There are some limited edition items from other games that could nudge into that range, due to that forced scarcity, but even there I can think of only a couple. And pushing into $10k+ is basically really nice OD&D 1st print woodgrain or Domesday Book issues. Is $10k+ a lot of money? Definitely! But, compare to the top end for comics, stamps, currency/coins, cars (heck, don't even to look at collectible cars), books, art, wine, etc. and it's the shallow end of the pool.
It's actually curious that other early RPG products aren't higher-priced due to rarity alone.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1068694It's actually curious that other early RPG products aren't higher-priced due to rarity alone.
What other items/games did you have in mind?
Rarity can be a detriment too; demand matters. If an item is so rare that no one knows to care, then you'd have an extremely small number of aware collectors looking for it. I have several items on my want list that are stupidly rare, but I'm sure won't actually cost that much when I stumble across them.
Tekumel comes to mind as an early game where some of the older stuff fetches a fair amount of money, but Tekumel's collector base has to be several orders of magnitude smaller.
I tried getting into it a few times but always bounced right off.
Quote from: Toadmaster;1067189I've even seen currently in print books with some insane pricing, the Gaslight Equipment Catalogue lists for $17.95, there are used copies being offered at $57...
On Amazon, some of that is money laundering. A place resells your book, from your stock, at a ridiculous mark up. This gets purchased, excess money is declared as profit (or written off due to overhead), taxes paid, and poof, clean money.
Quote from: Razor 007;1067269My D&D 4th Edition PHB is ready to ship, for $300.00
My offer still stands.......
Includes Custom Notes, as well as Authentic Wear and Tear!!!
(One day, there will be a 4th Edition D&D Revival; and I will be ready to cash in on it.)
I have a copy of the Indiana Jones Masterbook boxed set that includes;
* Original contents (3 books)
* An extra Masterbook core book
* The original cards
* Ten black d10's
PM me and make an offer!! Buyer pays shipping.
Have a complete set of WE's Indiana Jones and can't bear to part with it yet. I really should. I've hung on to Warhammer Fantasy 1ed books that are now worth far less than before (due to the C7 PDFs -- which I really appreciate).
Quote from: Tod13;1069112On Amazon, some of that is money laundering. A place resells your book, from your stock, at a ridiculous mark up. This gets purchased, excess money is declared as profit (or written off due to overhead), taxes paid, and poof, clean money.
Seriously? You think it's money laundering? As in, for drug traffickers or something??
I've wondered about the money laundering aspect too. Not for RPG stuff, but you see bizarre prices for products on Amazon occasionally and while its probably just algorithm glitches, there's always the possibility that its a form of money washing.
BTW, if any of you own valuable RPG books (aka, over $100), look into your homeowner's insurance policy for your personal art coverage. Yeah, that's a thing. I knew somebody whose home flooded and his old book collection was largely covered.
I'll add on to that and advise not to assume that something is covered. If you have a significant collection, talk to your insurance company. I use a separate insurer that specializes in collectibles as my primary coverage isn't adequate.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1069546Seriously? You think it's money laundering? As in, for drug traffickers or something??
I've seen that suggested before when this subject has come up. I'm not sold that this is a thing with RPGs, but it does strike me as plausible in some cases. Classic automobiles seems a more efficient way to launder large sums of money than obscure RPGs. Marijuana is a major black market crop where I live. A few years ago a couple of the local restaurants got raided by the IRS for suspected money laundering so it doesn't all happen through off shore bank accounts.
Quote from: Toadmaster;1069909Marijuana is a major black market crop where I live. A few years ago a couple of the local restaurants got raided by the IRS for suspected money laundering so it doesn't all happen through off shore bank accounts.
Of course.
Restaurants and other cash heavy businesses with inexact inventories are the classic ways to launder money. Especially with booze since bartenders vary in how they pour. They just claim to sell more than they actually do, pay taxes on some dirty money and it comes out clean. I've actually read that it's virtually impossible to catch if they don't overdo it, its just that many try to launder the money too fast.
Amusingly - many such businesses also do it the other way. The owner will take some cash out, claiming NOT to receive it to lower their taxes, and then just spend it as cash without ever reporting it to the IRS and paying taxes on it.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1069546Seriously? You think it's money laundering? As in, for drug traffickers or something??
I certainly don't think so.
I think it's a combination of a handful of different factors, but the biggest is automatic pricing software. It's easy enough to test - open yourself a seller account (disclaimer: be smart, don't use this for fraud, use different contact information, I'm not responsible for Amazon booting you, etc. etc.), find a listing that has some batshit crazy price, and list a copy cheap. Within 24 hours, you'll see those crazy listings drop, dramatically.
Some of those sellers have their auto-pricing software set to always be a couple of percent higher than the highest price (subtly advertising that they're the cream of the crop), while others have their software set to be a couple points lower than the highest price, and others are all over the map.
When the rationally (and manually) priced copies have been bought, and it's only auto-pricers competing, that's when shit goes crazy.
Amongst those highest-priced sellers are a handful of folk who don't actually have the product in stock - they're hoping that you'll buy from them, and then they'll buy a cheaper copy from one of their competitors and ship it to you. They really have nothing to lose doing this, since Amazon only charges on a completed sale.
-bh
Quote from: kythri;1069971I think it's a combination of a handful of different factors, but the biggest is automatic pricing software.
Yes; as I posted earlier:
Quote from: rawma;1067197An actual example (http://www.michaeleisen.org/blog/?p=358)
I would doubt that RPG collectibles are much used for laundering money, since they don't seem high enough priced or numerous enough, so the volume needed to launder significant amounts of money would stand out relative to legitimate sales. Laundering money via alcohol sales sounds a lot more plausible.