Quote from: Warthur;867970The basic PDF pretty much does have the whole of the actual rules though. It doesn't provide all the character options and whatnot but the actual procedures of play are all in there.

This is true. Basic 5e is a complete game. I've ran such a game PbP here already (currently on hiatus).

To call it "incomplete," or "psychologically reassuring," is rather strange. Sounds to me almost infantilizing players as dysfunctional lest they are "entitled" to all the widgets on display. That road then leads to reading the optional as mandatory, such as 5e Feats and Multiclassing, as we've seen with 2e's WP/NWPs and Individual Initiative with Weapon Speed mods.

Let's nip that bit of foolishness in the bud while we can this time around. I think we've learned better over the years. Basic 5e is a complete set of the core rules, period. Otherwise it would be incompatible with sanctioned Adventure League events, y'know that which is directly sponsored by WotC?, so we can bury this misunderstanding before it gains any further traction.

Unless anyone's interested in redefining WotC's property for them on its current public presentation? I'm sure they'd be interested in such informal public rebranding of their property to potential customers, no? Any further takers?

Quote from: Warthur;867970The basic PDF pretty much does have the whole of the actual rules though. It doesn't provide all the character options and whatnot but the actual procedures of play are all in there.

I know and I agree personally, but it seems that to some people character options are a very important part of the rules.

Quote from: AsenRG;868082I know and I agree personally, but it seems that to some people character options are a very important part of the rules.

It is an important option to a lot of people. Even back in the day an important reason why alternative RPGs got traction was the fact they had skills or customized sets of abilities. It not important enough to dethrone AD&D as the market leader, but enough to allow other fantasy RPGs to carve out their own niches.

However for the majority the setup of D&D as presented in the D&D 5e basic rule is more than sufficient to have a fun time playing out fantasy adventures.

Quote from: Opaopajr;868079To call it "incomplete," or "psychologically reassuring," is rather strange.

Think of it like a restaurant menu. Some people want the complete menu with all the options for side dishes, add-ons, and customized a la carte choices. Some people are fine with just the prix fixe choices. But even if I'm happy to just use the prix fixe portion of the menu, I still understand that the prix fixe isn't the complete menu.

Quote from: Bren;868091Think of it like a restaurant menu. Some people want the complete menu with all the options for side dishes, add-ons, and customized a la carte choices. Some people are fine with just the prix fixe choices. But even if I'm happy to just use the prix fixe portion of the menu, I still understand that the prix fixe isn't the complete menu.

Bad analogy. Cuisines are too broad. At best that is more like an RPG analog to genre than system core rules.

Prix fixe is a house special grouping of dish courses, but the menu is far broader. The culinary aesthetic and technique engines behind each dish are too varied between courses and dishes to really amalgam into a singular "core set." Thus there is obviously a sense of loss because you are passing up a cuisine's full experience by having a pre-packaged "greatest hits" version.

Now if you left it at a 'ramen noodle house' that would be a better analogy (specifically the more focused ones found in Japan or elsewhere in East Asia). It is essentially the same dish being served, a specific rich broth with egg noodles. Certain garnishments are commonly served, yet different and extra garnishments can be had at a price.

The core rules would be the specific dish itself. The PHB would be the differing condiments or ingredient substitutions to taste. However those condiments and substitutions are selected to not change the integrity of the dish's base, and thus not core unto themselves.

EDIT: a.k.a. A ramen house is not an udon house is not a soba house, as I learned much to my chagrin. The broth and noodle type matter.

Quote from: Opaopajr;868121Prix fixe is a house special grouping of dish courses, but the menu is far broader. The culinary aesthetic and technique engines behind each dish are too varied between courses...

You are way, way overthinking this.

Quote from: Bren;868136You are way, way overthinking this.

You can never overthink food. It is sheer ambrosia.

Quote from: Opaopajr;868272You can never overthink food. It is sheer ambrosia.

Dangit, now I want ambrosia salad.

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;868273Dangit, now I want ambrosia salad.

Food. It's just that good. :cool: