Who else can't stand this whole True 20 thing?

Ragnarok N Roll · April 03, 2006, 08:36:04 AM

Or is it just me?

:deviousgrin:

Acinonyx · April 03, 2006, 08:38:34 AM

It's just you.

Maddman · April 03, 2006, 08:42:23 AM

Just you. True20 is much shorter to write than "Everything Maddman would do to fix D&D."

Ragnarok N Roll · April 03, 2006, 08:51:36 AM

I guess "can't stand" might be stronger than what I intend to say. More like...underwhelmed and don't see what all the fuss is about.

Maddman · April 03, 2006, 08:52:54 AM

Ever since d20 came out there's been a desire to have something with the same basic idea, but with the needless complexity stripped out. A 'd20 lite' so to speak. True20 delivers on that desire. That's about all there is to it really.

Ragnarok N Roll · April 03, 2006, 09:03:59 AM

Quote from: MaddmanEver since d20 came out there's been a desire to have something with the same basic idea, but with the needless complexity stripped out. A 'd20 lite' so to speak. True20 delivers on that desire. That's about all there is to it really.

I see. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or anything. And I've looked over the rules, they just didn't do anything for me. Plus I look at all the d20 books I've amassed over the last half a decade and...well, meh.

Zalmoxis · April 03, 2006, 09:24:32 AM

True20 strikes a chord with all those folks who thought D20 was a good idea that was overly complicated, which happens to be quite a few people. I think it's a good system.

King_Stannis · April 03, 2006, 09:51:39 AM

D20 is very simple. It's only as complex as people wish it to be. At it's core is beating a number with your D20 roll, whether that target is fixed or variable (such as with an active defense). I saw no reason for a streamlining of an already streamlined system. That is why True20 doesn't appeal to me. Well, that and the fact that I need another game system like I need a bag on my hip.

Mr. Christopher · April 03, 2006, 09:59:35 AM

Quote from: King_StannisD20 is very simple. It's only as complex as people wish it to be. At it's core is beating a number with your D20 roll, whether that target is fixed or variable (such as with an active defense). I saw no reason for a streamlining of an already streamlined system.

Apparently the people who like True20 wish it to be less complex. Sure, the d20 System core is streamlined. Green Ronin is just streamlining everything else. Personally True20 is still too rules-bloated for me but I can see the appeal.

Sigmund · April 03, 2006, 10:25:06 AM

To be honest, for me the attraction of True20 is not so much the streamlining (although that doesn't hurt), it's 3 specific things...

1) I like having 3 basic classes and making what would be class features into feats. It allows for a greater degree of character customization without adding complexity IMO

2) I like the Grittier (potentially more deadly) combat system, although I actually add back in the AoO rules because I like a tactical game.

3) I greatly prefer the magic system over the Vancian-influenced system of DnD.

Sobek · April 03, 2006, 10:49:30 AM

Is True 20 OGL? Is it online? I haven't seen a copy in my town, yet. Ergo, no opinion.

I generally like d20, and can't say that I'd consider it a complex game. Still, since it bugs me to not have an opinion on something, I'd love to look at the True 20 rules.

Maddman · April 03, 2006, 10:52:18 AM

Quote from: King_StannisD20 is very simple. It's only as complex as people wish it to be. At it's core is beating a number with your D20 roll, whether that target is fixed or variable (such as with an active defense). I saw no reason for a streamlining of an already streamlined system. That is why True20 doesn't appeal to me. Well, that and the fact that I need another game system like I need a bag on my hip.

I like the saying that the core mechanic of d20 is very simple. It's all the stuff around it that eats your brain.

Ragnarok N Roll · April 03, 2006, 11:00:52 AM

Quote from: MaddmanI like the saying that the core mechanic of d20 is very simple. It's all the stuff around it that eats your brain.

I guess that entire premise I simply can't relate to. D20 itself, the entire ruleset is so easy and quick I just don't see any reason to "improve" upon it. A different set of rules you like, I can understand that. Thing is, I really liked Green Ronin's 3.x stuff and I certainly hope they don't stop producing it because of this whole True20 thing.

Yamo · April 03, 2006, 11:14:44 AM

I thought it was a terrible decision for them to use classes instead of the straight point-buy system from Mutants & Masterminds. As it is, just buying M&M and ignoring the superhero artwork gets you a better generic d20 game than True20, which is a shame.

Zalmoxis · April 03, 2006, 11:16:32 AM

Quote from: SigmundTo be honest, for me the attraction of True20 is not so much the streamlining (although that doesn't hurt), it's 3 specific things...

1) I like having 3 basic classes and making what would be class features into feats. It allows for a greater degree of character customization without adding complexity IMO

2) I like the Grittier (potentially more deadly) combat system, although I actually add back in the AoO rules because I like a tactical game.

3) I greatly prefer the magic system over the Vancian-influenced system of DnD.

#1 & #3 are the big selling points for me. On the other hand, #2 is the only thing about it I don't like. The "more deadly" part doesn't bother me, it's the way they did it that I don't like.