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Author Topic: White Wolf - WoD and CoD Mix and Match  (Read 3085 times)

CTPhipps

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« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2020, 05:34:36 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1131513
It's terrible and isn't healthy. That's the entire reason I decided to make my own campaign settings. To avoid all this awful toxicity. To mix and match the ideas I liked from every iterations of the darkness games.

A friend of mine had the same idea and made our GOTHAM CITY BY NIGHT game.

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2020, 07:13:31 PM »
Quote from: CTPhipps;1131516
A friend of mine had the same idea and made our GOTHAM CITY BY NIGHT game.

I was thinking more time-traveling cyborg templar homunculi like what Orphan says he liked about Mage. And laser squid katana spaceships.

Orphan81

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« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2020, 08:22:28 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1131525
I was thinking more time-traveling cyborg templar homunculi like what Orphan says he liked about Mage. And laser squid katana spaceships.

Yes, exactly. It's the strength of the Ascension setting over the Awakening setting.

Templar
Paradigm: Instrument of God's will on earth, I am not a Mage, but a worker of Miracles granted to me by God.
Foci: Templar Sword, Crucifex Necklace, Prayers and Hymns, Holy Water.
Spheres: Life, Prime, Matter...
Typical Effects:The Templar can lay on hands to heal, use transubstantiation to change the state of matter, smite foul creatures, use holy sight to seen magic, and pray for strength against adversries.

Cyborg
Paradigm: I am the future of humanity, when man and machine become one.
Foci: Cybernetic eye, arm, leg, and some internal organs, really big gun
Spheres: Correspondence, Forces, Matter
Typical Effects: The Cyborg can use her internal computer to hack any electronic device, see through them and spy on anyone. Forces can be used to take control of those devices, and can also be used to make her big gun really good at blowing shit up, deliver electric shocks from her cybernetic limbs, magnetic force to wipe hard-drives, generate forcefields to protect others. Matter of course lets her integrate with machines directly using her cybernetic parts to better control and use them, make her equipment even better or detect flaws with it using her cybernetic eye.

Time Traveling Dark Ages Hermetic
Paradigm: The secret wisdom of the world found in Invoking Arch Angels and Demons, calling up the sacred wisdom of Hermes-Trimergertus.
Foci: Secret names of Greater beings, symbols of power, numerology, The internet
Spheres: Forces, Time, Prime
Typical effects: Calling upon the elements to smite foes, Commanding Angels and Demons to undo Magick of others, detect sources of Magick and empower or depower them. Being slightly out of state with time thanks to being in the wrong timeline is used to speed themselves up, step slightly out of phase with time, or rewind and look forward in areas to gather information.

Those are just some very quick examples I whipped up in 10 minutes. Obviously, you probably wouldn't want all of them in the same group. It's perfectly awesome to also play a college student with a background in Voodoo whose awakened and now calls upon the Loa to perform their Magick, or a Mortician whose discovered the secret wisdom in death and studies different forms of Necromancy around the world to incorporate into a modern synthesis of their styles.

The point is, Ascension also let you go into High Fantasy and Magick if you wanted... with Void Ships plying deep space, and Horizon realms created by Arch-Mages to carry out their own grand experiments. You could keep things street level and gritty, or you could go High Modern Fantasy with it.
1. Some of you culture warriors are so committed to the bit you'll throw out any nuance or common sense in fear it's 'giving in' to the other side.

2. I'm a married homeowner with a career and a child. I won life. You can't insult me.

3. I work in a Prison, your tough guy act is boring.

CTPhipps

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« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2020, 08:50:58 PM »
I didn't feel Awakening very much but I loved the Seers of the Throne.

I feel much better antagonists than the Technocracy.

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2020, 12:05:32 PM »
Quote from: Orphan81;1131532
Yes, exactly. It's the strength of the Ascension setting over the Awakening setting.

Templar
Paradigm: Instrument of God's will on earth, I am not a Mage, but a worker of Miracles granted to me by God.
Foci: Templar Sword, Crucifex Necklace, Prayers and Hymns, Holy Water.
Spheres: Life, Prime, Matter...
Typical Effects:The Templar can lay on hands to heal, use transubstantiation to change the state of matter, smite foul creatures, use holy sight to seen magic, and pray for strength against adversries.

Cyborg
Paradigm: I am the future of humanity, when man and machine become one.
Foci: Cybernetic eye, arm, leg, and some internal organs, really big gun
Spheres: Correspondence, Forces, Matter
Typical Effects: The Cyborg can use her internal computer to hack any electronic device, see through them and spy on anyone. Forces can be used to take control of those devices, and can also be used to make her big gun really good at blowing shit up, deliver electric shocks from her cybernetic limbs, magnetic force to wipe hard-drives, generate forcefields to protect others. Matter of course lets her integrate with machines directly using her cybernetic parts to better control and use them, make her equipment even better or detect flaws with it using her cybernetic eye.

Time Traveling Dark Ages Hermetic
Paradigm: The secret wisdom of the world found in Invoking Arch Angels and Demons, calling up the sacred wisdom of Hermes-Trimergertus.
Foci: Secret names of Greater beings, symbols of power, numerology, The internet
Spheres: Forces, Time, Prime
Typical effects: Calling upon the elements to smite foes, Commanding Angels and Demons to undo Magick of others, detect sources of Magick and empower or depower them. Being slightly out of state with time thanks to being in the wrong timeline is used to speed themselves up, step slightly out of phase with time, or rewind and look forward in areas to gather information.

Those are just some very quick examples I whipped up in 10 minutes. Obviously, you probably wouldn't want all of them in the same group. It's perfectly awesome to also play a college student with a background in Voodoo whose awakened and now calls upon the Loa to perform their Magick, or a Mortician whose discovered the secret wisdom in death and studies different forms of Necromancy around the world to incorporate into a modern synthesis of their styles.

The point is, Ascension also let you go into High Fantasy and Magick if you wanted... with Void Ships plying deep space, and Horizon realms created by Arch-Mages to carry out their own grand experiments. You could keep things street level and gritty, or you could go High Modern Fantasy with it.


I never got the impression from reading Ascension that the character options you describe were available. Are you sure you aren't just homebrewing the whole lot?

You can do the exact same thing with Awakening, Opening the Dark, Risus, GURPS, Rifts, Shadowrun, the Everlasting, or any other system. The "tru majik" is pretentious glorified window dressing.

You don’t need the setting to spoon-feed you what your options are.

And yes, I want them all in the same group.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 12:11:36 PM by BoxCrayonTales »

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2020, 12:19:59 PM »
Quote from: Orphan81;1131532
Yes, exactly. It's the strength of the Ascension setting over the Awakening setting.

Templar
Paradigm: Instrument of God's will on earth, I am not a Mage, but a worker of Miracles granted to me by God.
Foci: Templar Sword, Crucifex Necklace, Prayers and Hymns, Holy Water.
Spheres: Life, Prime, Matter...
Typical Effects:The Templar can lay on hands to heal, use transubstantiation to change the state of matter, smite foul creatures, use holy sight to seen magic, and pray for strength against adversries.

Cyborg
Paradigm: I am the future of humanity, when man and machine become one.
Foci: Cybernetic eye, arm, leg, and some internal organs, really big gun
Spheres: Correspondence, Forces, Matter
Typical Effects: The Cyborg can use her internal computer to hack any electronic device, see through them and spy on anyone. Forces can be used to take control of those devices, and can also be used to make her big gun really good at blowing shit up, deliver electric shocks from her cybernetic limbs, magnetic force to wipe hard-drives, generate forcefields to protect others. Matter of course lets her integrate with machines directly using her cybernetic parts to better control and use them, make her equipment even better or detect flaws with it using her cybernetic eye.

Time Traveling Dark Ages Hermetic
Paradigm: The secret wisdom of the world found in Invoking Arch Angels and Demons, calling up the sacred wisdom of Hermes-Trimergertus.
Foci: Secret names of Greater beings, symbols of power, numerology, The internet
Spheres: Forces, Time, Prime
Typical effects: Calling upon the elements to smite foes, Commanding Angels and Demons to undo Magick of others, detect sources of Magick and empower or depower them. Being slightly out of state with time thanks to being in the wrong timeline is used to speed themselves up, step slightly out of phase with time, or rewind and look forward in areas to gather information.

Those are just some very quick examples I whipped up in 10 minutes. Obviously, you probably wouldn't want all of them in the same group. It's perfectly awesome to also play a college student with a background in Voodoo whose awakened and now calls upon the Loa to perform their Magick, or a Mortician whose discovered the secret wisdom in death and studies different forms of Necromancy around the world to incorporate into a modern synthesis of their styles.

The point is, Ascension also let you go into High Fantasy and Magick if you wanted... with Void Ships plying deep space, and Horizon realms created by Arch-Mages to carry out their own grand experiments. You could keep things street level and gritty, or you could go High Modern Fantasy with it.

I don't need the setting to spoon-feed me what my options are. If I want to do all that stuff in Awakening, then I will and I won't give a damn what anybody else thinks. (Not that I'll ever actually play either way, but it's the thought that counts.)

Ascension isn't unique in any of that. It's not like Rifts, Shadowrun, and Monte Cook's The Strange don't already do the same thing. I'm pretty sure Rifts and Shadowrun outright influenced Mage, since they predate it.

EDIT: I'm referring to genre-bending shenanigans here, not the rules tru majik.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 03:00:54 PM by BoxCrayonTales »

Chris24601

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« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2020, 01:37:31 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1131585
Ascension isn't unique in any of that. It's not like Rifts, Shadowrun, and Monte Cook's The Strange don't already do the same thing. I'm pretty sure Rifts and Shadowrun outright influenced Mage, since they predate it.

Look, I love me some Rifts, but No, Rifts doesn't do magic even a little like Ascension does and this is really just showing off your hate-blinders and ignorance of the Ascension setting (and of Rifts for that matter).

Rifts has exactly ONE paradigm for magic. You channel a specific type of energies through the use of specific words and gestures. Getting better at magic is a process of exposing yourself to those energies to increase your body's capacity to hold it (increasing the size of your PPE pool) and studying specific spells that channel that energy (your spell list).

The gods in the setting are extra-dimensional aliens that are better at channeling that energy than humans are and can charge up certain followers with that energy without the follower needing to study and practice.

There are cyborgs and superscience too in Rifts, but it's not magic and the setting makes a point of their mutual incompatibility and those things are only possible because the setting is a post-apocalyptic setting following an era of super-science.

This is 180 degrees the opposite of Ascension where both Hermetic words of power, the Templar's faith and superscience cybernetics are all just different expressions of the ways by which mages (not wizards... wise men is a much more apt term for them overall) push to change the present day world into something more than it is now.

Now, you COULD use Ascension's mechanics to run a game set in Rifts (i.e. PPE magic, ISP psionics and Super Science are coincidental) but that's not the same as saying that Ascension and Rifts do the same thing... just that Ascension allows so many concepts to work with each other in the same setting without breaking it's conceptual foundations.

Box, it's becoming increasingly obvious that your attacks on settings like Ascension, Masquerade and Wraith are based on, at best, second-hand information if not outright fabrications. You're adding nothing to the conversation but misinformation and spite.

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2020, 02:31:10 PM »
Quote from: Chris24601;1131588
Look, I love me some Rifts, but No, Rifts doesn't do magic even a little like Ascension does and this is really just showing off your hate-blinders and ignorance of the Ascension setting (and of Rifts for that matter).

I meant in the sense of crazy high fantasy shenanigans, not the metaphysical underpinnings. My mistake for not being clearer.

Quote from: Chris24601;1131588
Box, it's becoming increasingly obvious that your attacks on settings like Ascension, Masquerade and Wraith are based on, at best, second-hand information if not outright fabrications. You're adding nothing to the conversation but misinformation and spite.

I've read the books first hand. I can list various obscure trivia that I still remember, like mages eventually outgrowing paradigm (which also invalidates the fanboyism), the outcasts book mentioning obscure bloodlines never detailed since, the 3e vampire storyteller handbook mentioning cainite vampires as the default in China and Japan, etc.

I've tried to keep limited to attacking positions and fanboyisms, particularly the edition wars and fandom attitudes that drove me away in the first place.

EDIT: If I failed to make that clear, then my mistake.


[/HR]
EDIT: I do owe a great debt to Chronicles/World of Darkness for introducing me to dark urban fantasy RPGs. Nonetheless, I have creative disagreements with them on nearly every level of design. I have had a lot of unpleasant experiences with the fandom during a long period of flame wars that have rendered me negatively disposed towards the fandom in general and against their recurring talking points revolving around the edition wars.

If you feel attacked or misrepresented, then I apologize.

Long live laser katana squid starships!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 04:54:50 PM by BoxCrayonTales »

Chris24601

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« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2020, 05:25:27 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1131595
I meant in the sense of crazy high fantasy shenanigans, not the metaphysical underpinnings. My mistake for not being clearer.
Except Mage isn't primarily high-fantasy shenanigans either.

You can have everything from the Virtual Adept DJ using acoustic science to fill his nightly audience with particular emotions to a modern day Paladin clearing gangs from the neighborhood around a church he's seeking to restore, to plumbing the depths of the underworld to find a secret known only to a dead man, to fighting a mad Etherite in the Hollow Earth happen in the same game session.

The entire point of Mage is that, unlike those others you mentioned, it can be exactly what you want it to be in that moment and, if the mood changes, it can change with it.

It can be horror (from personal to cosmic), comedy (from black to slapstick), action or drama using the same mechanics, setting and characters. It can fit the entirety of Awakening into a single Tradition that is less broad than the Order of Hermes.

Quote
I've read the books first hand. I can list various obscure trivia that I still remember, like mages eventually outgrowing paradigm (which also invalidates the fanboyism), the outcasts book mentioning obscure bloodlines never detailed since, the 3e vampire storyteller handbook mentioning cainite vampires as the default in China and Japan, etc.
Actually, they don't outgrow their paradigm... they outgrow the need for specific tools to express that paradigm. Hermetics will always believe "As above, So below" as the root of their practice... but they will eventually understand that they don't need to perform extrernal rituals with props like circles, incantations and alchemical reactants in order to enact it. Their will alone writes their desires into the celestial realms and brings it to be on Earth.

Similarly, the pious mage does not lose their faith... they learn that their prayers don't have to spoken aloud or with incense and holy symbols to heard by whatever power they believe in.

This is also why technocrats (as in all those that believe their power comes through the use of technology vs. just the Technocratic Union) can't discard the trappings (and to the extent they do its more along the lines of going MacGyver or A-Team on a problem instead of needing specific tools to achieve an effect).

So while you may have skimmed the Mage books at some point, your observation is a common one among people who complained about the system without actually digging into it. Sorta like making judgments on say, the X-Men having only seen the films, but never even cracking a graphic novel.

Likewise, the Outcasts book only covers Caitiffs and only mentions bloodlines in fluff text with the statement that each Caitiff could be considered its own unique bloodline and gives some examples; then includes mechanics for Caitiff to be able to take the "New Bloodline" merit and create their own disciplines (the main requirement of a bloodline is a unique discipline that is passed down its line). So the stuff you're saying wasn't covered was literally IN THE BOOK.

Plus, several of the examples cited in the fluff text did get write ups. The spirit using bloodline is called the Ahrimanes and both it and the Mariners (which use Protean to become sharks and seagulls instead of wolves and bats) were compiled into the bloodlines section of V20's core book. Similarly, the Gaki first turned up in A World of Darkness 1e (and were later retconned into a House of the Wan Kuei when KotE became a thing) and the African bloodlines were covered in Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom.

You're also wrong on the ST Handbook... the only mention of China in the entire volume is in the alternate time period settings and it mentions that dealing with the Cathayans (the Kindred term for the Wan Kuei/KotE) would be a major part of such a campaign. It also has an extensive section (as in even covers specific disciplines) in Chapter six on how to intergrate the differences in mechanics between Kindred of the East and Vampire Revised.

The most amusing part for me is the section where China is mentioned also includes details on how to run the game without Clans or Sects and using alternate creation myths like excommunicated from the Church, suicides/buried in unhallowed ground, demonic pacts or ancient magics and alternate takes like ALL victims killed by vampric feeding (or fed upon three nights in a row) rise as vampires (vs. being fed vampire blood).

All those things you said the game couldn't do are actually spelled out in a "this is how you do it" section.

So to sum it up; your memory is faulty or remembers only second-hand sources (the misunderstanding of Mage commonly cropped up on forums by people dissing Ascension) and the main things you complain about Masquerade not having are actually in the Storyteller Handbook.

That kinda undercuts your arguments.

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2020, 06:35:39 PM »
Quote from: Chris24601;1131609
It can be horror (from personal to cosmic), comedy (from black to slapstick), action or drama using the same mechanics, setting and characters. It can fit the entirety of Awakening into a single Tradition that is less broad than the Order of Hermes.
I don't believe that since I've read a bunch of Awakening books and know about things like the Appalachian Hoodoo, magical styles rules, transhuman engineers, three-eyed nazi hermaphrodites, blah blah blah, but I'm far too exhausted and apathetic to bother arguing with you.

Ascension rules, Awakening drools. Hooray!

Quote from: Chris24601;1131609
So while you may have skimmed the Mage books at some point, your observation is a common one among people who complained about the system without actually digging into it. Sorta like making judgments on say, the X-Men having only seen the films, but never even cracking a graphic novel.
I'm reading page 203 of Mage Revised right now. It says that mages can abandon their foci as Arete increases, but it doesn't explain what this means for their paradigm. Given the vague wording of the text, claiming that mages slowly outgrow or expand their paradigm seems like a valid interpretation. Like a lot of things across the editions, it's open to interpretation. At least until M20 included passages specifically to state which was the "correct" way, like saying that process-based determinism was the right way despite many examples of magic in prior editions clearly being result-based determinism.

Quote from: Chris24601;1131609
Likewise, the Outcasts book only covers Caitiffs and only mentions bloodlines in fluff text with the statement that each Caitiff could be considered its own unique bloodline and gives some examples; then includes mechanics for Caitiff to be able to take the "New Bloodline" merit and create their own disciplines (the main requirement of a bloodline is a unique discipline that is passed down its line). So the stuff you're saying wasn't covered was literally IN THE BOOK.
That's not what I meant at all. You have this tendency to completely misunderstand me. I apologize for being so vague.

I was referring to the Vhrujunka, Pasdoranitas, Zhulukall on Outcasts p22. They were never referenced again.

Quote from: Chris24601;1131609
You're also wrong on the ST Handbook... the only mention of China in the entire volume is in the alternate time period settings and it mentions that dealing with the Cathayans (the Kindred term for the Wan Kuei/KotE) would be a major part of such a campaign. It also has an extensive section (as in even covers specific disciplines) in Chapter six on how to intergrate the differences in mechanics between Kindred of the East and Vampire Revised.
My mistake. I was referring to chapter nine of A World of Darkness 2nd edition. This was released in 1996, a year before it was entirely retconned by KotE.

Quote from: Chris24601;1131609
All those things you said the game couldn't do are actually spelled out in a "this is how you do it" section.
I never said the game couldn't do them. Technically, it can do them but only if you homebrew it. They're only presented as one-off ideas without any deeper exploration and no integration into the canon lore. VTR did the same thing in Mythologies: presenting ideas, but never full campaign settings. By contrast, VTR2e has included whole new clan writeups with very different rules from other vampires like the jiangshi and dukhan... which unfortunately probably won't be integrated into the lore overall anyway because of the isolated toolkit design.

Quote from: Chris24601;1131609
So to sum it up; your memory is faulty or remembers only second-hand sources (the misunderstanding of Mage commonly cropped up on forums by people dissing Ascension) and the main things you complain about Masquerade not having are actually in the Storyteller Handbook.

That kinda undercuts your arguments.
It does if you strawman my arguments. I've provided page references and speculations to compensate for my previously unhelpful vague statements.

Look, I used to be a rabid fad of the games many years ago, but now I'm not. I've heard all of your arguments before during that awful period of my life. You're not going to convince me. I have fundamental creative disagreements with the games' design and no amount of slight house ruling is going to fix that.

EDIT: Actually, nevermind. This topic is causing me nothing but mental anguish. This is precisely what drove me away from this toxic fandom in the first place.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 06:59:28 PM by BoxCrayonTales »

Orphan81

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« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2020, 08:56:39 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1131615

EDIT: Actually, nevermind. This topic is causing me nothing but mental anguish. This is precisely what drove me away from this toxic fandom in the first place.

Us: I like Chronicles, but I like Classic better for X,Y, and Z reasons..

BoxCrayon: Classic is stupid! How could you like it better!?

Us: *Proceed to provide examples of why we like it better*

BoxCrayon: No! I don't like those examples! You're all Toxic, I hate this fandom!

Dude, if anyone is Toxic, it's you right now. It's obvious this is causing you mental anguish, so yeah bowing out is probably the right idea.
1. Some of you culture warriors are so committed to the bit you'll throw out any nuance or common sense in fear it's 'giving in' to the other side.

2. I'm a married homeowner with a career and a child. I won life. You can't insult me.

3. I work in a Prison, your tough guy act is boring.

Chris24601

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« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2020, 10:39:59 PM »
Well, I'm sorry you're feeling mentally distressed, but it just seems like your arguments are picking at nits...

You're distressed that a piece of fluff text written in-character in a non-Vampire specific book and which included material on creating your own bloodlines was never given actual mechanics or follow up somehow BREAKS the game for you.

Frankly, Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom did a MUCH better job of presenting vampires in light of African culture (including multiple bloodlines reflecting that Africa isn't actually some homogeneous culture) than Outcast's single bloodline could have possibly done.

And I don't see what's so toxic about wanting clarity when someone presents something that's wrong. You admitted yourself that you'd cited the wrong book when citing that it had no mention of the Cathayan vampires... and of course it didn't; it was written in 1996, two years before Kindred of the East was written.

Plans change... particularly when producing creative works. VtM1e also started with the premise that the Eastern Kindred would be Cainites of unknown Antediluvian ancestry. Then someone pitched a more "interesting" idea (in quotes because specially magic asians hasn't aged well); probably because that tangentially tied into the other new title, Exalted, and they ran with that.

Likewise, you admit that discarding foci is NOT the same as discarding a paradigm; but tried inserting discarding paradigm as fact anyway (a false fact commonly used to disparage Ascension by those who cared more about hating it than getting their arguments straight) and are only distressed at being called on it.

Getting back to the topic at hand though, I have actually incorporated the basics of the Awakening factions into Ascension with the Exarchs as disembodied Archmages who built their own Umbral realm tied into their paradigm and with the Awakened factions sharing that paradigm. Hoodoo and the rest already had well established paradigms both in the Traditions and among the disparates, but the Atlantis/Towers myth was sufficiently unique to be its own paradigm, but because of that shared paradigm it really didn't have any more breadth to it than a typical independent Tradition... by contrast House Ex Miscellanea of the Order of Hermes includes paradigms of Chinese high ritual magic, technomancers, chaos magic, African tribal practices and druidic ritualists among others... and that's one House of one Tradition among the Council of Nine Magical Traditions; which wasn't even inclusive of all the mystical Traditions, much less when you included the Conventions of the Technocratic Union and the Orphans with their own unique paradigms.

I also took a cue from Awakening's Tremere (who were lich-like mages) and had the Vampire clan commit ritual suicide to avoid a prophecy of doom (I ran a variant of the Nephandi End Times scenario at one point that the PCs managed to overcome through some very clever uses of paradigm in a way that left all but a few unaware it had even happened; after which all my Mage campaigns have been Post-End Times with the wheel of ages now at the start of its upward cycle). This ritual transformed the entire clan into wraiths that rode out the end times in the underworld and then returned as possessing spirits and much better antagonists for mages since they were no longer limited to nighttime hours, fed on pathos/belief and couldn't be easily killed... at least not permanently.*

* This applies only to my ongoing Mage campaigns. The Tremere are their usual vampire selves in my Vampire games.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 10:43:18 PM by Chris24601 »

Kuroth

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« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2020, 11:54:03 PM »
I always thought Hunter: The Reckoning was sort of intended to be used like this, or at least that's how I imagined it.  Not going to claim I know much in depth knowledge about White Wolf games.  Liked the look of Hunter, though.
Any comment I add to forum is from complete boredom.

Mordred Pendragon

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« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2020, 02:53:23 AM »
Quote from: Orphan81;1131625
Us: I like Chronicles, but I like Classic better for X,Y, and Z reasons..

BoxCrayon: Classic is stupid! How could you like it better!?

Us: *Proceed to provide examples of why we like it better*

BoxCrayon: No! I don't like those examples! You're all Toxic, I hate this fandom!

Dude, if anyone is Toxic, it's you right now. It's obvious this is causing you mental anguish, so yeah bowing out is probably the right idea.

It's sad when the craziest person in a World of Darkness thread is NOT me for a change.

Like, I'm pretty out there on multiple topics in gaming and outside of gaming, while BoxCrayonTales is pretty normal in most threads right up until White Wolf enters the discussion.
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BoxCrayonTales

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White Wolf - WoD and CoD Mix and Match
« Reply #59 on: May 29, 2020, 09:17:26 AM »
Talking with WoD or CoD fans alike stresses me out to the point where I get diarrhea.

You continually rag on CoD and constantly misrepresent my arguments in bad faith.

I apologize for any mistakes or misspeaking, but I would appreciate not being made a strawman.

I'm simply not invested in the edition wars. I don't compare Awakening or Ascension to see which is better. I have creative disagreements with both.

Talking to you literally gives me diarrhea on a daily basis.

So yes, I'm bowing out.

Years of flame wars have worn me down. I was also abused for several years, which doesn't help. I have a developmental disorder that interfered with my social skills. I've been struggling with undiagnosed depression for several years now.

Basically, my whole psyche is screwed up from the get go and I am negatively inclined toward WoD/CoD fans to begin with. I apologize if you have felt attacked and I mean no offense.

I just want an urban fantasy game that is loosely similar to WoD/CoD but isn't the same brand and doesn't give me diarrhea when I try to discuss it.