Tribe 8 has great demons. Z'bri.

They are true horrors, but are well explained (in a sorcebook, if not the core book) as to why they do the horrible things they do.

As I recall there were only about five types of Z'bri, but each had a very clear history and purpose.

I appreciate dark treatments like Tekumel's or Harn's.

But what I really appreciate is how GURPS handles demons.  There's no such thing as a standard or predictable type: all the numbers and all the abilities come out on random gen tables.  This helps shortcircuit what I feel is a crucial weakness in the typical RPG treatment of demons: as predictable, standardized stat blocks, with numbers and abilities known to any player who's peeked at the monster manual.

Quote from: Ravenswing;770906I appreciate dark treatments like Tekumel's or Harn's.

But what I really appreciate is how GURPS handles demons.  There's no such thing as a standard or predictable type: all the numbers and all the abilities come out on random gen tables.  This helps shortcircuit what I feel is a crucial weakness in the typical RPG treatment of demons: as predictable, standardized stat blocks, with numbers and abilities known to any player who's peeked at the monster manual.

I have often 'accidentally' left a monster entry in plain view...gee too bad Metagamey The Powergamer thought the demon he was fighting was a Rakshasa. Fire all the blessed bolts you want, sucker.

Quote from: Ravenswing;770906I appreciate dark treatments like Tekumel's or Harn's.

But what I really appreciate is how GURPS handles demons.  There's no such thing as a standard or predictable type: all the numbers and all the abilities come out on random gen tables.  This helps shortcircuit what I feel is a crucial weakness in the typical RPG treatment of demons: as predictable, standardized stat blocks, with numbers and abilities known to any player who's peeked at the monster manual.

For creatures of Chaos, DnD Demons aren't very Chaotic.

Quote from: Ravenswing;770906But what I really appreciate is how GURPS handles demons.  There's no such thing as a standard or predictable type: all the numbers and all the abilities come out on random gen tables.  This helps shortcircuit what I feel is a crucial weakness in the typical RPG treatment of demons: as predictable, standardized stat blocks, with numbers and abilities known to any player who's peeked at the monster manual.

Stormbringer (and Mongoose Elric) do that too. It's pretty cool and definitely plays up demons as agents of Chaos.

For a modern setting, I have found few collections of monsters and supernatural threats as fascinating and vile as the Book of Unremtting Horror. So many nasty little (and not so little) creatures and predators. They are not all very combat-specific - there is a creature, just called "the man in the bar", that preys on people in a bad moot, talks them into an alcohol-induced depression and eats their eyes. He is not a fighter or anything, he just listens to you, encourages you to drink and strips your soul to the point that his victims give up.
What many of the creatures have in common is that they prey on "the weak" - homeless people, people with depressions, lonely people and of course children. The more powerful ones in the book are all well suited as a central threat for a whole campaign, and even the lesser ones are quite noteworthy. Besides, the way the book is written (I only have the gumshoe version, not the D20 one, but I think they have identical contents), makes just for a entertainingly creepy read and offers a few neat information about the creature and its victims - like the results of a forensic examination.

For a fantasy setting, the Horrors from Earthdawn are also neat. The more powerful ones are effectively characters on their own, and likewise can be central to a whole campaign. I had more fun using Nebis and his neat little game of punishing the self-righteous for their hybris (through fake religious revelations) than I ever had with the average Lovecraftian creatures (which are remarkably dull once the novelty factor of their initial weirdness has been replaced with a certain familiarity).

Quote from: The ButcherI should really look into this game some day. I mean, I need a new game like I need a gallstone, but that's never stopped me before.

Do you want a game with lifepath based character creation, that doesn't waste any notions on things like "balancing" or the like?  Where the chracters are most likely ending up as either pseudo Shadowrunners on the terraformed moons or soldiers the trenches of Verdun on the Mars, fighting against a never ending onslaught of undead soldiers? Mutant Chronicles is not a particularly diverse game. It is a game about gory, brutal combats with brutal gory things in it. It works great if you want something like a dungeon crawl with automatic weapons. For pretty much anything else, there are better systems.

That reminds me of one from DC's Seven Soldiers of Victory Shining Knight.  Despair is an immaterial, invisible creature that follows you around questioning your decisions and telling you how useless you are.

Only three correct answers to this:
- AD&D 1E
- Stormbringer/Elric (actual best answer)
- L5R, whichever edition had that awesome Shadowlands source book (reasonably facsimile of best answer)

I love Dragonquest, but the demons were sort of a lost opportunity; they are quite similar to one another in play and most are boring.

Quote from: danbuter;770887This is what I was going to recommend. Fantastic supplements.

I agree with spinachcat too. When I saw this its the first thing that came to mind. I also agree that the Veceron book was especially good. Combine the Demons books with Sentinels & Archmagic, also by Mayfair & you have a dark metaphysical background for 2nd edition.

The demonic entities of my favorite setting Shadow World are also pretty good there are Demons of the Pales, Procreators, Demons of light, fire, air, etc. Also there are Demonic constructs like Shards, Gogor & Neng. Not to mention cthuloid demons like the Agothu.

I've always been fond of the Demon Lords of both AD&D & Warhammer, but Warhammer's lesser demons were uninspiring compared to Chaos Knights.

The Archdevils of AD&D were good too I always found the Demon vs. Devils distinction both intriguing & poorly thought out. I always hated the Blood War though.

Palladium's Demons (except the Locust Demons) always left me cold they even have the demon devil divide of AD&D & it makes even less sense there.

Talislanta's Shaitans & the Demon summoning Black Savants are too cool, but the demonic beasts seem too formulaic to me.

I also agree that Nyarlathotep & the night gaunts are cool. I think the hounds of Tindalos come across as pretty demonic.

Surprisingly I don't care for the demons in Elric/Stormbringer despite the undeniable influence of Moorcock on the whole genre.

Lesser Key of Solomon

It is also system neutral

Quote from: jeff37923;770868Back in the day of Runequest belonging to Chaosium and White Dwarf magazine wasn't a mouthpiece for Games Workshop, there was a series of articles in White Dwarf from the early 80's that dealt with summoning and binding demons along with stats for those demons and demon lords. That series of articles set the standard for me.

What system were they statted for?

Quote from: Arminius;770939What system were they statted for?

IIRC, Chaosium's Runequest.

EDIT: Yup, issues #44, #45, and #46 of White Dwarf magazine from 1983.

I like the classical struggle between Heaven and Hell the best. So my vote goes to Demon the Fallen or In Nomine. Another game with demons is Nobilis, but I don't know much about that one. Witchcraft/Armageddon has demons and angels as well.

Quote from: The Butcher;770878Funny, I'm not familiar with Books of Pandemonium games but I have the Teratic Tome PDF.

Don't know anything about Teratic Tome.

QuoteAnd while the illustrations and descriptions are pretty damn horrific, and the modus operandi for each monster is fairly specific, it all still feels kind of samey.

I like the idea of specific M.O.s. I've used two or three of the Pandemonium demons and there hasn't been any samey-ness problem. It could be a "use-in-play" vs "reference book" thing, or, the difference between what the player experiences vs the GM's perspective.

And the Z'bri are great fun, has anyone tried to take them out of Tribe 8 and into some other setting?

Quote from: YourSwordisMine;770930Lesser Key of Solomon

It is also system neutral

Bingo. Imagine using Aamon or Buer as antagonists?