The first book I regretted buying was Tasha's Crock of Excrement. I didn't give two shits about the woke nothingburger that everyone else here seems to feast on. No, what I didn't like about it was the changes they made to class/subclass mechanics and some of the badly built/balanced/tested crap that got through to print. This was not only the first 5e book I regretted buying, it was also the last 5e book I bought.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 09, 2022, 03:26:12 PM
The first book I regretted buying was Tasha's Crock of Excrement. I didn't give two shits about the woke nothingburger that everyone else here seems to feast on. No, what I didn't like about it was the changes they made to class/subclass mechanics and some of the badly built/balanced/tested crap that got through to print. This was not only the first 5e book I regretted buying, it was also the last 5e book I bought.

Tasha's chilled me out too, but there were a few decent things there.

Core three plus Xanathar's would be my pick. I think Xanathar was neutered a little, but the additions are nice. The DMG is underrated and probably the best since the original.

If you want to avoid giving money to Wizards and have a little bit of experience already, you could grab the basic rules for free and homebrew the rest. You can google the free PDF. At one point the D&D Beyond app would also allow you to access the Basic Rules for free.

Quote from: FingerRod on August 09, 2022, 07:37:12 PM
Core three plus Xanathar's would be my pick. I think Xanathar was neutered a little, but the additions are nice. The DMG is underrated and probably the best since the original.

If you want to avoid giving money to Wizards and have a little bit of experience already, you could grab the basic rules for free and homebrew the rest. You can google the free PDF. At one point the D&D Beyond app would also allow you to access the Basic Rules for free.

Used copies of the core three books are incredibly easy to find, at least in the USA.

Go with Ruins of Symbaroum for 5e. All you need is the D&D 5e SRD and the 3 books for RoS. It's not woke and Free League did the 5e adaptation of Symbaroum the right way. Skip D&D 5e altogether.

Quote from: Monero on August 08, 2022, 08:24:34 PM
And outside of the core 3 books, which others would be considered "must have"?

While nothing beyond the core 3 is truly must have, Xanathar's has the following major stuff omitted from the DMG/MM:

1. Proper encounter tables, using only MM monsters. This was a noticeable omission from DMG/MM.
2. Decent magic item crafting rules, with much better durations & pricing.
3. Other good downtime rules - though some in the DMG remain good.
4. Common magic items - more fun than necessary, but good for a common-weak-magic sort of setting.
The lists of names are handy but not vital.

And it has some good stuff for players, like the Forge Domain cleric and racial feats, though nothing really vital.

I certainly reference XGTE in play a lot more than the DMG, though the DMG does have good discursive material. It suffers from a really weird, non-intuitive structure, with some of the most advanced material right up front.

Core 3 plus Xanathar's will get you set pretty well.

Tasha's is very optional.  A few of the additional subclasses are decent, but not enough on their own to justify the price.  The new optional rule on attributes was stupid.  Most of the subclasses are weird and don't have a true D&D feel. 

Would consider:
Rime of the Frost Maiden (Played it and enjoyed)
Tales from the Yawning Portal (Collection of older good adventures converted to 5e)
Candlekeep Mysteries. A collection of short adventures for various levels. Okay if you need that.
Original printing of Volo's Guide. Some lore, some monstrous PC races.

On the fence about:
Storm King's Thunder (Read, but didn't play. They try to have level 1 characters start a campaign to fight giants, and band-aid it by giving you powerful NPC help. Not every adventure book has to start at Level One. )


Own them and would say not worth the price:
Theros.  Definitely not worth the price. Less than a 3rd of the book is useful. Better off finding a 3rd party Ancient Greece setting for half the price.
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.  My 1st disappointment with these being not worth the price.  A few good subclasses in a very thin book.  They have crates of Forgotten Realms material in the back room and they could barely come up with 156 pages?
Wild Beyond the Witchlight. Underwhelming.




Not interested:
Ebbaron, Ravnica. The best settings books are 3rd party, and I'm not into second-hand MtG ported stuff. (No offense to MtG players, but it's just not my gig.)

Quote from: DM_Curt on August 10, 2022, 07:54:31 AM
Core 3 plus Xanathar's will get you set pretty well.

Tasha's is very optional.  A few of the additional subclasses are decent, but not enough on their own to justify the price.  The new optional rule on attributes was stupid.  Most of the subclasses are weird and don't have a true D&D feel. 

Would consider:
Rime of the Frost Maiden (Played it and enjoyed)
Tales from the Yawning Portal (Collection of older good adventures converted to 5e)
Candlekeep Mysteries. A collection of short adventures for various levels. Okay if you need that.
Original printing of Volo's Guide. Some lore, some monstrous PC races.

On the fence about:
Storm King's Thunder (Read, but didn't play. They try to have level 1 characters start a campaign to fight giants, and band-aid it by giving you powerful NPC help. Not every adventure book has to start at Level One. )


Own them and would say not worth the price:
Theros.  Definitely not worth the price. Less than a 3rd of the book is useful. Better off finding a 3rd party Ancient Greece setting for half the price.
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.  My 1st disappointment with these being not worth the price.  A few good subclasses in a very thin book.  They have crates of Forgotten Realms material in the back room and they could barely come up with 156 pages?
Wild Beyond the Witchlight. Underwhelming.




Not interested:
Ebbaron, Ravnica. The best settings books are 3rd party, and I'm not into second-hand MtG ported stuff. (No offense to MtG players, but it's just not my gig.)

Greetings!

Good commentary and recommendations, DM Curt!

You made me laugh with your commentary about the Adventurers of the Sword Coast book. I also own that book. Indeed, 156 pages. *Sigh* Thankfully, I am a Forgotten Realms veteran from *The Grey Box*--and I also own all of those FR# Guide manuals from back in the day. And, lots of other Waterdeep, Sword Coast, and Forgotten Realms books, supplements, and boxed sets. Geesus. The amount of lore and information is staggering.

So, I have it all. Still, though, the 5E Sword Coast book was "WHAT???" levels of underwhelming disappointment. It made me think, in rolling out a new D&D edition, and "updating" the Forgotten Realms to the new edition--this is all WOTC has to say about it? Really?

I'm reminded of the very nice 300+ page hardcover main book they did for the Forgotten Realms for 3E. They created several supplementary hardcover books a well--the white, swirled greyish-brown series of books. I have to say, for Forgotten Realms, those books were all wonderfully produced, beautiful, and densely-loaded with lore, options, and ideas. I think with that 3E series of Forgotten Realms books, they really set the bar as an example for how campaign supplements for a game world should be done. They were excellent.

Honestly, though, too--I think all of the sharp game designers, writers, and staff that produced all of those excellent books for 3E are all gone now. That absence of real knowledge, genuine expertise and strong writing skills is painfully visible throughout much of what WOTC currently produces.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 09, 2022, 10:39:01 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on August 09, 2022, 07:37:12 PM
Core three plus Xanathar's would be my pick. I think Xanathar was neutered a little, but the additions are nice. The DMG is underrated and probably the best since the original.

If you want to avoid giving money to Wizards and have a little bit of experience already, you could grab the basic rules for free and homebrew the rest. You can google the free PDF. At one point the D&D Beyond app would also allow you to access the Basic Rules for free.

Used copies of the core three books are incredibly easy to find, at least in the USA.

Indeed. Good call out. eBay is usually painted with them. I purchased mine from our FLGS before it went out of business.

Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked at the Drow entry only to discover that I got the woke version of the books. I figured I was safe since I have a 10th printing pdf of the players handbook and is the non-woke version.

The slip case is nice, the books are a really cool foil cover...but it's been "corrected" with Right Think.

Now I have to decide if it's worth the trouble of returning to Amazon or not.

Going to the city this weekend with my wife and son and was planning on hitting up the LFGSs anyway. If I can find the Pure versions of the core 3 for cheap then that's what I'll do and send this woke trash back.

Can't fucking believe I can't even buy a D&D book without having woke filth infiltrate my household. I just want to play D&D, not be indoctrinated.

I mean was it really SO bad back in the day when you could safely buy whatever the fuck your wanted without fear of taking part in someone's political ideology?

Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:39:10 PM
Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked at the Drow entry only to discover that I got the woke version of the books. I figured I was safe since I have a 10th printing pdf of the players handbook and is the non-woke version.

The slip case is nice, the books are a really cool foil cover...but it's been "corrected" with Right Think.

Now I have to decide if it's worth the trouble of returning to Amazon or not.

Going to the city this weekend with my wife and son and was planning on hitting up the LFGSs anyway. If I can find the Pure versions of the core 3 for cheap then that's what I'll do and send this woke trash back.

Can't fucking believe I can't even buy a D&D book without having woke filth infiltrate my household. I just want to play D&D, not be indoctrinated.

I mean was it really SO bad back in the day when you could safely buy whatever the fuck your wanted without fear of taking part in someone's political ideology?

Dude, you have Amazon and available transportation to "head into the city," so returning the product is about as hard as getting a fast food meal at a drive-thru. If the printing offends you much, just be rid of it already and spare us the drama.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 10, 2022, 02:45:36 PM

Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:39:10 PM
Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked at the Drow entry only to discover that I got the woke version of the books. I figured I was safe since I have a 10th printing pdf of the players handbook and is the non-woke version.

The slip case is nice, the books are a really cool foil cover...but it's been "corrected" with Right Think.

Now I have to decide if it's worth the trouble of returning to Amazon or not.

Going to the city this weekend with my wife and son and was planning on hitting up the LFGSs anyway. If I can find the Pure versions of the core 3 for cheap then that's what I'll do and send this woke trash back.

Can't fucking believe I can't even buy a D&D book without having woke filth infiltrate my household. I just want to play D&D, not be indoctrinated.

I mean was it really SO bad back in the day when you could safely buy whatever the fuck your wanted without fear of taking part in someone's political ideology?

Dude, you have Amazon and available transportation to "head into the city," so returning the product is about as hard as getting a fast food meal at a drive-thru. If the printing offends you much, just be rid of it already and spare us the drama.

Well, if complaining about WotC's woke bullshit is considered "drama", then this entire forum site is an exercise in drama.

It's just frustrating.

Honestly I may just say fuck it and go in a different direction all together. I'm hearing great things about OSE and at least I'd be safe from WotC nonsense.

Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:39:10 PM
Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked <snip>

Oh for chrissake! You already bought the damn books! Suck it up and stop whining about it. It's your fault for not doing your due diligence and getting the versions you wanted in the first place. So what if some of the text is cringy? Do WORDS offend you now? Is it really that important to have a "PURE" version? Do you even realize who you sound like right now?

Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:57:57 PM

Well, if complaining about WotC's woke bullshit is considered "drama", then this entire forum site is an exercise in drama.

Ding, ding, ding!

Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:39:10 PM
Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked at the Drow entry only to discover that I got the woke version of the books. I figured I was safe since I have a 10th printing pdf of the players handbook and is the non-woke version.

The slip case is nice, the books are a really cool foil cover...but it's been "corrected" with Right Think.

Now I have to decide if it's worth the trouble of returning to Amazon or not.

Going to the city this weekend with my wife and son and was planning on hitting up the LFGSs anyway. If I can find the Pure versions of the core 3 for cheap then that's what I'll do and send this woke trash back.

Can't fucking believe I can't even buy a D&D book without having woke filth infiltrate my household. I just want to play D&D, not be indoctrinated.

I mean was it really SO bad back in the day when you could safely buy whatever the fuck your wanted without fear of taking part in someone's political ideology?

Used copies off the internet would have been more likely to yield the true early 5E game.  You could have messaged potential sellers, and asked them what printing their copy was.

I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted.  You should anticipate that any brand new slipcase editions, will be the newer woke printings.