Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;468915A TRPG in electronic format is a crippleware product.  It ought to handle all of the system interactions--stat rolls, skill checks, positioning, status effects--to be worth the effort and once you cross the Rubicon you don't have a TRPG anymore- you have a CRPG, something that will do better business and better exploit the strengths of both the technology and the media involved.

A proper TRPG is published in print, played entirely around a table, uses no electronic technology and exploits the strengths of that medium and those circumstances to achieve a result that cannot be had otherwise.

I personally think you put way too much emphasis in how your rules are packaged than how the game is actually played.

For example, I find it absurd to suggest that people playing Stars Without Numbers or OSRIC for many months when they first came out weren't playing a proper TRPG.

Quote from: jgants;468837Why are the producers of The One Ring, Legend, Runequest 6, etc throwing money into a sinking ship?

Funny you mentioned something like RQ6. I don't speak for The Design Mechanism, but they are two writers making a company to produce their game, while presumably not quitting their day jobs. That's what the industry is like. What are they supposed to do, raise a million dollars and hire a bunch of programmers? How's that been working out for WotC? Time for a reality check here.

I'm a frequent RPG book buyer - probably a book every month, overall, so I'm probably the sort of customer they want to keep... and I will NOT pay for an RPG product available only in electronic form, full stop. I will (and do) buy PDFs if, and only if, I can get a package deal on the print version and the PDF together. Some companies give the PDF free when a paper copy is ordered, which is nice, but not essential, though the PDF should at least be significantly discounted when ordered along with the paper copy. If a product is not available on paper and is only available as an electronic file I will pirate it long before I'll buy it and will feel no remorse whatsoever in doing so.

Quote from: bombshelter13;468922If a product is not available on paper and is only available as an electronic file I will pirate it long before I'll buy it and will feel no remorse whatsoever in doing so.

Really? That seems like a good way to kill up and coming new RPG designers trying to get started.

You smell that?  I smell nerd entitlement.

Quote from: SkywalkerReally? That seems like a good way to kill up and coming new RPG designers trying to get started.

It doesn't matter, man.  He's probably too cool to care.   Although if he eventually pays for it then it's not necessarily the worst thing ever, but it's still keeping money out of the creator's pockets for an indefinite period of time, which does have ramifications.

Quote from: Peregrin;468925It doesn't matter, man.  He's probably too cool to care.   Although if he eventually pays for it then it's not necessarily the worst thing ever, but it's still keeping money out of the creator's pockets for an indefinite period of time, which does have ramifications.

I never really got why electronic RPG products would have a negative impact on physical RPG products until now. Apparently, if you prefer physical RPG products alot, it entitles you to steal the electronic RPG products which may have been the precursor to such physical RPG products.

It is clear now.

Yeah no. I think that electronic platforms do have their uses in the hobby. As replacements, or instead of the real thing. I don't steal electronic products. I do, however, believe that the notion the hobby must somehow become all electronic, that paper RPGs are a thing of the past, that you should get on with technology blah blah blah is total bullshit.

It's kind of like that management meme of the 90s when companies believed that the email would replace paper in business in a matter of a few years. Now consider that we're talking about a form of game which, fundamentally, is played with real, live people around the table, that it's actually one of the things that sets it apart from its descendance, computer RPGs, MMOs and the like, and I'm utterly convinced that all this talk about new technologies is a huge bunch of bullshit.

Take that as you will.

Quote from: Benoist;468928Take that as you will.

That's a good point. With the industry moving to Print on Demand, RPG books will be readily accessible electronic products by necessity. Partnering the physical with the electronic is where we should be heading.

I don't disagree.

To virtualize entire aspects of the experience/game.  Dunno. Especially with tactics-heavy games like 4e, at some point you'd have to ask yourself if it wouldn't be better to just play a CRPG with friends.  However I'm all for products that enhance the at-table experience (honestly, you could do some really neat stuff with a digital rules-book if it wasn't bound to the PDF format).

Quote from: jgants;468848I see WotC as slowly (ever so slowly) getting used to the idea.  But they are still thinking in "book mode" first.

Really? Because I'd say not printing any more books isn't thinking in "book mode first."

Seanchai

Innovation to an entirely new format takes time, expertise, and money. Most RPG publishers are part-time amateur outfits operated on a shoestring.

I hate reading on my computer. I'll be the last person that goes to PDFs. I still buy CDs for all of my music - iTunes gets nothing but rentals.

Most of the time when I buy an RPG product its basically charity: most things never get played and later get sold to a used book store. If I can't even enjoy having the book on my shelf there isn't any way I'm going to pay for it. I'd rather write everything I play from scratch than pay one cent for a PDF.

You know you can print PDFs, right?  It might not be feasible for something like Pathfinder, but most games out there aren't that long.  I recently had a copy of Nine Worlds (available free as a PDF, but I'd have paid for it), Dust Devils, and Keep on the Borderlands (the original) printed for a reasonable price, and it was well worth it, IMO.  As long as an RPG publisher isn't charging some outrageous price, then I've no qualms with paying 5-10 bucks for a PDF and then having it printed.  Once you get to the 20-30 dollar range, buying and then printing becomes less economical, though.

Also...regarding CDs...sure...but only because you can then rip them to a digital format and toss the disk in your storage folder.

Why you'd use iTunes is beyond me, though.  Bad bitrates, horrible DRM.

Quote from: Skywalker;468930That's a good point. With the industry moving to Print on Demand, RPG books will be readily accessible electronic products by necessity. Partnering the physical with the electronic is where we should be heading.

Yes. That I agree with.

Quote from: Peregrin;468936You know you can print PDFs, right?  It might not be feasible for something like Pathfinder, but most games out there aren't that long.

Also...regarding CDs...sure...but only because you can then rip them to a digital format and toss the disk in your storage folder.

Why you'd use iTunes is beyond me, though.  Bad bitrates, horrible DRM.

Printing is a chore and it isn't always cheep. Besides, I have zero interest in mini games and I think printing 150 pages is the producers job. I'm not inclined to shell out 5 or 10 bucks for a pdf and then waste all that ink and paper copying it out, just to put it in a 3 ring binder or pay someone else to put it into a book for me. It sucks.

Its like this to me: buying a PDF is like eating out at Wendy's. Sure, its cheep and easy, but you could have been motivated and cooked at home or gone out for real food. Eating at Wendy's is the worst outcome for a busy day. I don't want to feel like that in my hobby.