I had one player who would always create the most mundane and ordinary people as characters, and then try to avoid adventuring with them.  It really made the rest of us scratch our heads because he wanted to play. He just didn't seem to want to play an heroic adventurer in a game about heroic adventurers having heroic adventures.  At least he wasn't actively disruptive of the game, he was just sort of a non-entity.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;952882That's such bullshit, estar. How many sandbox referees hand their players a map and say, 'You are here. What do you do?'

At a barest minimum there's a campaign pitch - 'You're adventurers in a world of ruins, monsters, and treasure!' 'You're swashbucklers in the time of Louis XIV!' 'You're traders and mercenaries in the far future!' - but anyone with even a modicum of horse sense can manage something like, frex. the three paragraphs which set the stage for Keep on the Borderlands.

The whole "static world" thing is complete 100% arse-gravy too.  There is no such thing as a static world.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;952946"Fuck you, I quit."

Thankfully my daughter and a couple of others are great fun. But some of the rest of them...  I strongly suspect it is the pernicious influence of too many computer games and too much memorizing the D&D books vs actually playing the damn game.

Quote from: DavetheLost;952949Thankfully my daughter and a couple of others are great fun. But some of the rest of them...  I strongly suspect it is the pernicious influence of too many computer games and too much memorizing the D&D books vs actually playing the damn game.

"Those dang kids with their video games and their rock 'n roll!"

Quote from: finarvyn;952570I agree that the 5E modules are a little linear, but that's key to Adventure League play since you theoretically can go to any store with your character and just jump into a game there. If the modules were too wide-open then players would be at a totally different place when going from store to store. Having said that, I'm not sure how often folks store-hop and the AL also has a whole slew of one-shot adventures which get run in the store most weeks.

I've played parts of most of the new hardbacks and all have some good and bad points. The Tyrrany of Dragons sequence ("Hoard of the Dragon Queen" and "Tiamant" books) were pretty well done. Ravenloft was well done if you like that sort of thing; some of my players love it but others hate the darkness of the setting. We're playing in the Storm Giant one now.

The Goodman Games product line "Fifth Edition Adventures" is good if you like one-shots, but they aren't AL official so you can't use those characters in official games later. :-(

"Official games."

Quote from: AsenRG;952920Wait. Do you really mean that you need someone to tellyou what to do in real life? It reads that way, but Im having a hard time believing it...
I mean, who told you to come to this forum and rile the sandbox-loving majority?

Well, I'm exaggerating [strike]to annoy Black Vulmea[/strike] for effect. Of course I can do a few minor things on my own initiative. And having opinions on roleplaying seems to be one of the exceedingly few things that I'm actively driven to do. But it's true that for the most parts, my life goal is "don't die and don't get fired." And frankly, the second one is just because if I don't have a job, I can't afford to eat, and if I can't afford to eat, I will die, so really, "don't die" is about the extent of my personal ambition and always has been. Just how I'm wired.

Quote from: AsenRG;952920If you are that cooperative, would it work if I told you "you are a swashbuckler in 17th century Paris looking to uphold his honour, get famous, and seduce noblewomen just to spite those better off than him"?

Sure, that I can work with. Likewise, I am very comfortable with Pendragon's "you're a feudal knight in medieval Britain. You need to embody some knightly virtues (you get to choose which exact ones) and gain Glory by serving your liege-lord and performing chivalrous deeds." Just as long as I get a basic motivation and some context to pursue it in, I'm pretty much fine.

Quote from: CRKrueger;952924What country do you live in?

Sweden. Tons of my relatives over the last several centuries emigrated to America. Per definition, I descend from the ones who wisely decided that that was too much risk and bother. My bloodline has been thoroughly pruned of all traces of derring-do!

BtW does a great job of creating relarionships between the characters as part of chargen and planting adventure seeds into their backgrounds and origins.

Quote from: Chris24601;952857In stories that's called an inciting incident and I agree its probably even more important for a sandbox because 90% of every sandbox setting I've ever read are stable and static and just like thermodynamics, objects at rest tend to stay that way. Without some type of dynamic stress on the system there's no motivation for taking much of any action.

 

Sandbox settings are not stories, they are somewhat static in that the status quo is usually stable until a bunch of wandering yahoos show up and start poking around. Whatever happened to adventurers seeking fortune & glory?

The default premise for the TSR era D&D adventurer was someone who wanted to be MORE than just some scrub wanderer with only a few meager possessions and a few coppers to rub together. Wanting it bad enough to go out and look for trouble when most sensible folks stayed home is what makes them ADVENTURERS. Hell, even Jeb the fat potato farmer can take up arms and defend the homestead when faced with complete destruction otherwise. Fighting when trouble finds YOU is fairly ordinary. Going out to some god forsaken hole in the ground populated by unimaginable horrors simply because they are there, and may have loot that will elevate your place in the world- thats an adventurer.

Removing treasure as an XP generator was the worst thing to happen to D&D.

Quote from: DavetheLost;952872You just functionally described my current group of players.  When faced with a sandbox they just sit there unmoving. Prod them with in character adventure hooks and they might move slightly. Come right out and tell them "You are doing this" and they will go along, until they don't.

Engage with the game world they do not. Play in character with actual character personalities they do not. Drive me to distraction they do.

Stuck with them I am, because I run a drop in game at our local public library.

Better players you need yes.

Quote from: Baeraad;952998Well, I'm exaggerating [strike]to annoy Black Vulmea[/strike] for effect. Of course I can do a few minor things on my own initiative. And having opinions on roleplaying seems to be one of the exceedingly few things that I'm actively driven to do. But it's true that for the most parts, my life goal is "don't die and don't get fired." And frankly, the second one is just because if I don't have a job, I can't afford to eat, and if I can't afford to eat, I will die, so really, "don't die" is about the extent of my personal ambition and always has been. Just how I'm wired.

I have to ask, Baeraad, is this how you always are, or is this just a specific time and place in your life? I certainly remember a period in my life (mid 20s) where I had been burned on love, my career wasn't taking off like I thought it was supposed to and my day-to-day job was fairly boring, and a lot of college friends had disappeared and not been replaced. I was just kinda coasting. In retrospect, I was probably a little depressed, but at the time I just thought of it as not having figured out my next direction in life. I'm sure it also affected how I gamed. You say it's just how you are wired, but do you think you'll feel the same way in 10 years? I don't want to extrapolate my life to everyone's situation, nor say you're doing something wrong if it works for you. It just doesn't sound satisfying to me not to have ambitions.

Quote from: DavetheLost;952872You just functionally described my current group of players.  When faced with a sandbox they just sit there unmoving. Prod them with in character adventure hooks and they might move slightly. Come right out and tell them "You are doing this" and they will go along, until they don't.

Engage with the game world they do not. Play in character with actual character personalities they do not. Drive me to distraction they do.

These players definitely sound like they are coasting. I'm not suggesting that you change for them, but have you asked them what they would like to do? Some change in style or even game (ex: they're settling for D&D but would really love a high-flying sci-fi campaign) that would make them take up the ball and run? What part of the gaming do they do? Fighting monsters that you throw at them I'll guess? It all sounds so strange to make the effort to come and game if you're not going to engage in the world.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;953025Sandbox settings are not stories, they are somewhat static in that the status quo is usually stable until a bunch of wandering yahoos show up and start poking around. Whatever happened to adventurers seeking fortune & glory?

Fine let's start a campaign, you are a 1st level Fighter out to seek fortune & glory. What do you do?

Quote from: estar;953052Fine let's start a campaign, you are a 1st level Fighter out to seek fortune & glory. What do you do?

I'll be the 1st level magic-user.

I go to the local pub to order the rare glass of wine while all the others get drunk on mead. I'm listening to the boisterous rowdy conversations trying to pick out some nugget of information that might lead to treasure.

If I have to, I will use my cantrips to amuse the locals and earn at least enough money for a small room and roasted potatoes. But one day these simpletons will tremble at my power.

Quote from: estar;953052Fine let's start a campaign, you are a 1st level Fighter out to seek fortune & glory. What do you do?

The clichés are always reliable: hire myself out to escort caravans, hunt down bounties, clear giant rats or slimes from the sewers etc...

Quote from: estar;953052Fine let's start a campaign, you are a 1st level Fighter out to seek fortune & glory. What do you do?

That pretty much was the startup for the players in the 5e multi-group campaign we are in.

The group of me Kefra and Jan formed as we looked too shady to join the other two groups. Might not have been too far off the mark either. heh-heh. Bemusingly apparently we are currently the most helpful group. The other two have been more aloof or something and pursuing their own agendas after some initial successes . While my group has been mostly troubleshooting for the area and continuing exploring the swamps as the two tend to co-incide.

We literally met up in a tavern and after some initial friction teamed up and off we went.

Quote from: estar;953052Fine let's start a campaign, you are a 1st level Fighter out to seek fortune & glory. What do you do?

That pretty much was the startup for the players in the 5e multi-group campaign we are in.

The group of me Kefra and Jan formed as we looked too shady to join the other two groups. Might not have been too far off the mark either. heh-heh. Bemusingly apparently we are currently the most helpful group. The other two have been more aloof or something and pursuing their own agendas after some initial successes . While my group has been mostly troubleshooting for the area and continuing exploring the swamps as the two tend to co-incide.

We literally met up in a tavern and after some initial friction teamed up and off we went.

Quote from: estar;953052Fine let's start a campaign, you are a 1st level Fighter out to seek fortune & glory. What do you do?

My fighter would eye every inhabitant of the room, measuring their worth in precious experience points!