Quote from: Dave R;950895Pathfinder puts out one setting, and a bunch of adventures.  I'm not sure how this is some devastating critique of 5e's line of one main setting and a bunch of adventures.

Pathfinder (currently*) has one setting, you're right.  And it has dozens of books covering regions, races, assorted odds & ends, monster manuals, etc. etc. etc. within that one setting.  And that's before we even get to modules and adventure paths (which are separate) or the non TTRPG merchandise (comics, card games, novels, etc.).

It's a fair statement that Paizo has managed to do nicely on the supplement treadmill for quite some time now.  

Quote from: Christopher Brady;951011Can we please not use Paizo as an example of why adventures 'sell'.

Well, they seem to have figured out how to make modules sell with their line of adventure paths.  And their module modules seem to be doing okay, given there's over a 100 of them.

(*depends on if you consider the upcoming Starfinder a new setting or not)

Quote from: Christopher Brady;951013Then do what most smart people do, game with your friends.

He doesn't have them.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;951016Well I see I'm quite late to this party, but anyways, Hi, OP!
Welcome to the board. I see you've gotten your fair share of introduction to the usual personalities and how things go around here (and some trial by fire).

As everyone has said, there is an explanation to WotC's decisions. No, they are not winding D&D down and it really shouldn't be bewildering. They are following a specific strategy which focuses on favoring an evergreen edition and not risking the brand. We can like it or dislike it, but it seems to be working for them (or at least they seem pleased with the results) so it is likely to stay this way for a while.

Third party expansions are a crap shoot, but frankly, averaged over the course of the game as a whole, so have expansions from the game producers, so the lesson is you always have to be discerning with your gaming purchases.

So not much to add there I guess.
As to this site, you've clearly noticed the trial-by-shittalking thing we've got going. I also would overall prefer a slightly more polite atmosphere, but consider it a small price to pay for uncensored thoughts being expressed.

I see you are capable of handling yourself fine. Although, if you are going to take the high road, then wouldn't this...

...be lowering yourself to his level?

It's totally up to you. Neither the 'rise above it' or 'give as good as you get' strategy seems to inoculate one from it here, I'm just pointing out inconsistent strategy.

Anyways, hope you like it here. Glad we could hear you mope. Sorry we can't change the WotC strategy, but glad we could suggest some good third-party material. Happy gaming!

Lol your right but it was too easy.
And external factors made me snippy. I wouldn't censor anyone as I've gained more from the disparate opinions here than on another site by a country mile but you can disagree with me to your hearts content without being foul or rude. I wouldn't tolerate it in person and I don't see that the anonymity of the internet should make it permissible. That said I'm 'aware' of who to ignore now.

I'm very pleased by some of the suggestions I think AIME is definitely on the buy list and I'm looking forward to picking it up. And even some of the OSR suggestions (via review) bare investigation.

Mope is over thread has pushed me into deciding what I want to run next

Quote from: estar;951017If you disagree that the rpg industry is publishing a mountain of crap aimed at collectors and readers then form a coherent argument about why you disagree.

Taken to one extreme, you have the people going out and buying every thing for every game.  Maybe they read it all (doubtful), maybe a lot of it sits on a shelf unread and unused (likely).  But if it makes them happy, and keeps the industry side of the hobby growing....  It's not a bad thing.

Taken to the other extreme, you have people inventing their own systems and running things free form.  They don't need someone else's rules or books at all.  If this was all the hobby consisted of, there'd be no shared hobby at all, and all you'd have are a bunch of people each playing their own games and not able to easily share or build off of one another because they can't really relate.  But if they're having fun, it's not a bad thing either.  

"The rpg industry is publishing a mountain of crap" is too subjective to be of any use.  I mean, -I- hate 95% of the stuff out there, and find it useless and derivative.  But if someone comes up to me and says they have fifteen different books/PDFs/notes/etc. on... kobolds... and has gotten good ideas out of each, or even just enjoyed reading them, I'm not going to say they didn't.  (and of course, like all good hypocrites, I'll happily say "that game is garbage" and go on a tirade as to why)

Quote from: estar;951017Gronan and Black Vulmea have a point however on this site trying to argue how how they say their point will get you nowhere and you probably will get ridicule in return. If you disagree that the rpg industry is publishing a mountain of crap aimed at collectors and readers then form a coherent argument about why you disagree. If you want to spice it up with a few fuckwits and assholes feel free to dos but that not your style then don't sweat it.

Lol no I think I know who's posts are worth just skipping over now.

You mentioned or I've read that the points of light books were now called Land of Adventure? Or am I having a senior moment? If you did where can I get that?

As to the RPG industry, no I think that there are a lot of great games out there and some fantastic material, I was mostly surprised that the latest edition of the first rpg was by comparison sadly lacking. And there's nothing wrong with pandering to collectors so long as your not rolling out tripe.

I've always preferred my own worlds and adventures but I find a lot of value in the ideas and works of others and for a home campaign I'm not above plagiarism

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;950888And as a result of that we have Pathfinder, which I believe is still selling more than 5e...? At worst a close competitor. And what do they put out? Settings and adventures.

Pathfinder's getting relatively blown out by 5e. BUT it also appears that PF is still growing in absolute terms, so it seems that 5e has expanded the pie.

Personally, I hate splats. I got burned out on splats with 4e (go ahead, boo and hiss) when I realized that I'd thrown tons of money at the things and used maybe 5-10% of the total content I'd bought if that (several books just never got touched). And I'm saying that as someone who ran and played in multiple 4e campaigns across nearly the entire run of its existence. But adventures? If I buy an adventure, I will eventually use nearly all of the book, so it's a worthwhile purchase for to me. Splats seem like a better buy at first because in theory, they're usable forever, but in terms of actual page use, I get a better value out of modules and adventures.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;950975Yeah, the OP sounds like yet another dead-from-the-neck-up limp-dick who can't manage masturbation without the Swimsuit Issue spread out on the toilet seat.

Only on an RPG site is "skilled at masturbation" a signifier of manliness.

Quote from: HorusArisen;951023Lol no I think I know who's posts are worth just skipping over now.

Oh don't skip over Gronan. He has valuable, if often curmudgeonly and semi-often potty-mouthed, insight.  Even Christopher Brady, whose gone hammer and tongs with him a half dozen times since I've joined, listens to his responses. BV, too, has useful things to say, even if his hostility dial goes all the way up to 11 (and all the way down to 9 1/2).

QuoteAs to the RPG industry, no I think that there are a lot of great games out there and some fantastic material, I was mostly surprised that the latest edition of the first rpg was by comparison sadly lacking. And there's nothing wrong with pandering to collectors so long as your not rolling out tripe.

Honestly, they can roll out tripe for all I care, especially if it's sitting on the collector's shelves. Lord knows there are lots of truly useless hunks of plastic in the shape of Star Wars characters sitting on collectors shelves (in their original packaging) that have value only because collectors want to take them off your shelf and put them on theirs. As long as
1) good games have good material written for them, and
2) people looking for that good material have some means of finding out what the actual good material is
then the system is working fine, as far as I am concerned.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;951024Pathfinder's getting relatively blown out by 5e. BUT it also appears that PF is still growing in absolute terms, so it seems that 5e has expanded the pie.

Which I'll just pop in and say is awesome.

It looks like Paizo still has the crunch-lovers mostly locked down, but 5e being lighter has been a combination of more newbie friendly & more likely to bring back old-timers who haven't played for a few editions.

Though - it's hard to tell how much of the expanded TTRPG market is 5e itself, and how much of it is trickle from the board game Renaissance - as it's much easier to convert a board game enthusiast to play a session or three of a TTRPG than it is a total non-tabletop gamer.

Quote from: HorusArisen;950999Fairly sure I'm not your father...

Oh, snaps!

For what it's worth, I feel what you're stepping in and would prefer a bit more stuff for 5e that isn't adventures. I create my own adventures and would love a single setting book for whatever settings they feel are worth it, preferably Eberron. I don't want a glut of stuff, just a decent sampling. But, if that doesn't happen there's a ton of resources, so making up my own things isn't a huge deal.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;951038Oh, snaps!

For what it's worth, I feel what you're stepping in and would prefer a bit more stuff for 5e that isn't adventures. I create my own adventures and would love a single setting book for whatever settings they feel are worth it, preferably Eberron. I don't want a glut of stuff, just a decent sampling. But, if that doesn't happen there's a ton of resources, so making up my own things isn't a huge deal.

Don't need a lot just some stuff to enjoy, but I'm definitely thinking of getting some of the better sounding 3rd party stuff.

Quote from: san dee jota;951015And yet you want to chat with them on forums?

No, I'd much rather chat with gamers who aren't dull or stupid, but an object at rest tends to remain at rest until a force acts upon it. I'm trying to overcome inertia.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;951016I see you are capable of handling yourself fine. Although, if you are going to take the high road, then wouldn't this...

Quote from: HorusArisen;951001I wouldn't bother. The need to belittle or attack others usually stems from a deep rooted insecurity.

...be lowering yourself to his level?

The holier-then-thou schtick is a refuge of feebs who can't actually engage.

Quote from: estar;951017Gronan and Black Vulmea have a point . . .

For those with eyes to see and ears to hear

Quote from: san dee jota;951022I mean, -I- hate 95% of the stuff out there, and find it useless and derivative.

Then you know exactly what I'm talking about, so stop braying at me like an ass.

Quote from: hexgrid;951027Only on an RPG site is "skilled at masturbation" a signifier of manliness.

And your reading comprehension is as shallow as your wit.

Quote from: HorusArisen;951040Don't need a lot just some stuff to enjoy, but I'm definitely thinking of getting some of the better sounding 3rd party stuff.

Admittedly, I haven't played much of 5th (I like it a lot, as far as D&D goes) and I'm not knowledgeable about third-party stuff.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;951024...so it seems that 5e has expanded the pie.

Believe it was the guy behind Pelgrane Press and 13th Age who noted that when D&D does well, everyone else in RPGs does better.

Quote from: san dee jota;951022"The rpg industry is publishing a mountain of crap" is too subjective to be of any use.  I mean, -I- hate 95% of the stuff out there, and find it useless and derivative.  But if someone comes up to me and says they have fifteen different books/PDFs/notes/etc. on... kobolds... and has gotten good ideas out of each, or even just enjoyed reading them, I'm not going to say they didn't.  (and of course, like all good hypocrites, I'll happily say "that game is garbage" and go on a tirade as to why)

My view is that what the industry does or doesn't do is a non-issue anymore. Technology and open content have produced a situation where anybody who thinks that the industry (or hobby) is doing it wrong has to be means to "fix" it and distribute that "fix" widely.

Granted the likelihood of one person knocking off Paizo and/or Wizards off the RPG perch is very unlikely but it is possible unlike the 80s and 90s when you had to order large print runs and place them in proper distribution. But then again the situation is such that you don't need to knock off Wizards or Paizo to be successful. It possible for a person to have modest success with a much small audience.

The result is increased diversity both in what is offered and in quality. Every niche of the hobby now has dozens of professionally produced products along with at least one or two gems.

For example gonzo fantasy or weird horror isn't a style of fantasy I care for. Yet both has had products released that fans of those genres consider as gems.

If you wanted to live in a second golden age of tabletop roleplaying this past decade is it and it shows no sign of abating.