My most recent 5e game started with the "Clearing out the cellar at the local tavern" cliche. Mind you, the tavern is in Sigil, and the cellar has portal to the para elemental plane of Ice that keeps the ale cold. And then  there's the Ice Penguins.

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Quote from: MonsterSlayer;953061I'll be the 1st level magic-user.

I go to the local pub to order the rare glass of wine while all the others get drunk on mead. I'm listening to the boisterous rowdy conversations trying to pick out some nugget of information that might lead to treasure.

There isn't a local pub in sight, you are standing in a grassy field. To the west there are snowcapped mountains to the west. To the north a low ridge of hills with scattered stands of trees. To the south the terrain is flat with more scattered clumps of trees, to the east the trees are more dense however it looks like a border around cropland rather than start of a forest.
 

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;953061If I have to, I will use my cantrips to amuse the locals and earn at least enough money for a small room and roasted potatoes. But one day these simpletons will tremble at my power.

Be aware that I am making a point about assumptions and context in regards to sandbox campaigns. The problem here is that the only I said prior to saying "Hey I am running a sandbox campaign." that is about people finding fame and fortune.

You assumed that you started in a settlement with a pub where you could go get information and impress the local. What you wrote is very reasonable given those assumption. However I had in mind a different starting point. But because I didn't lay that out first, what you wrote is irrelevant. Probably annoyed you a little and made you think "Rob being a bit of an ass for not telling me that I was in a field at the start."

While this is a simplistic example it does illustrates the importance of communication at the start of a campaign and why it is important to layout an initial context that more than just "Go forth and find fame and fortune." My opinion that most referee give a paragraph or two of general and personal information anyway in the course of talking up what the campaign is about. That most referees who are say "Well I all tell my players to go adventure and they are happy about it." are just saying bullshit.

My reason for emphasizing giving an Initial Context is not because people are doing it already, but to make it more of a deliberate action rather something that is ad-hoc. Circa 1980 I did this for the most part but I never thought about it much. So most campaign started off OK but a more than a few floundered or even failed. By the 90s I gained enough experience to realize that laying out the initial context was important to do right for the way I ran campaign. ANd it wasn't until around 2010 that I gave it a distinct name. Before I would called it campaign prep.

Half of the stuff I advocate for sandbox campaign, people do anyway and have been doing for years. It just putting it together in a coherent order make it easier for those who don't think about it or "get it" to learn how to use these techniques for themselves.

Quote from: Necrozius;953063The clichés are always reliable: hire myself out to escort caravans, hunt down bounties, clear giant rats or slimes from the sewers etc...

Quote from: Omega;953070That pretty much was the startup for the players in the 5e multi-group campaign we are in.

The group of me Kefra and Jan formed as we looked too shady to join the other two groups. Might not have been too far off the mark either. heh-heh. Bemusingly apparently we are currently the most helpful group. The other two have been more aloof or something and pursuing their own agendas after some initial successes . While my group has been mostly troubleshooting for the area and continuing exploring the swamps as the two tend to co-incide.

We literally met up in a tavern and after some initial friction teamed up and off we went.

Quote from: RunningLaser;953076My fighter would eye every inhabitant of the room, measuring their worth in precious experience points!

All reasonable but because I neglected to mention that you are starting in a field with mountains, hills, more field, and croplands around you all came up with wildly varying responses that don't quite pertain to what I just described in post #329

Again it not that the idea Initial Context is some kind of amazing revelation handed down from the Sandbox Gods. It just to point out that if you establish the Initial Context CONCISELY with some general and personal information that the chances of successfully igniting a sandbox campaign is that much higher. The point is to give enough information so that the players have some choices for the INITIAL decisions of what to do at the beginning of the campaign.

For a rare few it may be a novel (rolling eyes) but in my experience a paragraph of general information, and a paragraph specific to each player is sufficient.

Quote from: estar;953052Fine let's start a campaign, you are a 1st level Fighter out to seek fortune & glory. What do you do?

Where am I?  Do I live somewhere or did I spontaneously generate out of thin air?

Quote from: Exploderwizard;953025Sandbox settings are not stories, they are somewhat static in that the status quo is usually stable until a bunch of wandering yahoos show up and start poking around. Whatever happened to adventurers seeking fortune & glory?

The default premise for the TSR era D&D adventurer was someone who wanted to be MORE than just some scrub wanderer with only a few meager possessions and a few coppers to rub together. Wanting it bad enough to go out and look for trouble when most sensible folks stayed home is what makes them ADVENTURERS. Hell, even Jeb the fat potato farmer can take up arms and defend the homestead when faced with complete destruction otherwise. Fighting when trouble finds YOU is fairly ordinary. Going out to some god forsaken hole in the ground populated by unimaginable horrors simply because they are there, and may have loot that will elevate your place in the world- thats an adventurer.

Removing treasure as an XP generator was the worst thing to happen to D&D.

The very first Fafhrd & Grey Mouser story Fritz Lieber ever wrote was originally titled "Two Sought Adventure."

It begins with them seeing a ruined tower some distance away as they come up to a farm where they spend the night.  They ask the farmer about it and he says it's a horrible haunted dangerous place.  They decide to go there first thing in the morning.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;953085Where am I?  Do I live somewhere or did I spontaneously generate out of thin air?

But according to Exploderwizard I just gave you enough to start a campaign off with. I am just following his wisdom.

Quote from: estar;953087But according to Exploderwizard I just gave you enough to start a campaign off with. I am just following his wisdom.

No, you're being a asshole.

And I should know, because it takes one to know one, and I am their king.

Quote from: Baeraad;952998Well, I'm exaggerating [strike]to annoy Black Vulmea[/strike] . . .

All you worthless fucks who fall to quivering, whimpering pieces when I turn my fiery eye-beam on you? That's how to respond. Well played.

Now show that same sort of cleverness and initiative when you roleplay and you won't suck. As much.

Quote from: DavetheLost;952949. . . too much memorizing the D&D books vs actually playing the damn game.

Fuck those people sideways, vagally and annually.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;953061I go to the local pub to order the rare glass of wine while all the others get drunk on mead. I'm listening to the boisterous rowdy conversations trying to pick out some nugget of information that might lead to treasure.

Or chat up merchants in the market about the wider world. Or make my obeisance to the local lord or burgher and talk current events. Or pay homage at the local temples and inquire about local lore. Or buy the merchants' drovers a round.

It's not fucking rocket surgery, estar.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;953085Where am I?  Do I live somewhere or did I spontaneously generate out of thin air?

On more serious note, if you were in my campaign I would start off by laying out the basic premise.

The campaign, using the OD&D rules with my Majestic Wilderlands supplement, takes place in a feudal kingdom. There are difference to due to magic but many things that were true of 12th to 13th century western europe are true here. While Christanity doesn't exist, the region is dominated by the worship of the goddess of honor and justice, Mitra and the local revere her as the patron of their people in a manner not unlike that of the Roman Catholic Church.

The kingdom is a few hundred years old but the ruins of much older civilization are present throughout the land. Most abandoned by the local demi-human cultures (elves, dwarves, halflings, and allied humans) during the rise of the present kingdom. Much of the eastern shore of the kingdom has been overrun by Vikings and the rest of the kingdom is riven by factions and noble in-fighting.

Given that situation and the rules we are using what would you like to play?

As a general note, if I pitched this and the players went meh. I would come up with something different until I found something they were interested. Then from there move on to the specifics.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;953090No, you're being a asshole.

And I should know, because it takes one to know one, and I am their king.

I concur that I was being an asshole to illustrate my point.

Is estar's point about the value of players of an RPG talking about the expectations of the game really controversial?

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;953097Is estar's point about the value of players of an RPG talking about the expectations of the game really controversial?

Yes, especially here.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;953097Is estar's point about the value of players of an RPG talking about the expectations of the game really controversial?

It more specific, some don't like the idea of a background writeup at the start of a campaign.

Quote from: estar;953100It more specific, some don't like the idea of a background writeup at the start of a campaign.

And that's how you end up with gonzo imploding partys

Quote from: HorusArisen;953101And that's how you end up with gonzo imploding partys

Or playing by rote.  

Quote from: Necrozius;953063The clichés are always reliable: hire myself out to escort caravans, hunt down bounties, clear giant rats or slimes from the sewers etc...