Quote from: Voros;952329Thought we established it was the super expensive Invisible Sun. The Strange and Numenera have been out for a while and are just hardcovers.

I never saw the answer. That said, I have definitely not heard of IS.

Quote from: cranebump;952286I'll be keeping the DW conceits while running a B/X/Microlite hack.

A hack you did or one of the many M20 hacks available?

Quote from: cranebump;952408I never saw the answer. That said, I have definitely not heard of IS.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/montecookgames/invisible-sun

Defeats even my curiosity and the nuts price to have everything :eek:

I looked at the IS KS and said You've got to be kidding me. Then I backed the Kult KS instead.

Quote from: Coffee Zombie;952405In fact, removing the minis entirely and making the ships cards you move around would have probably worked better.

So basically Squad Leader in space?

Quote from: Exploderwizard;952404I have never understood the desire to simply consume, rather than create, in a hobby that features creativity as its largest advantage over other entertainment mediums.

Or to follow 'plot-lines.' Or to set up 'scenes.' Or to provide 'script-immunity.'

What makes roleplaying games great, in my experience, is all the many ways they aren't books, movies, televisions shows, plays, et al.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;952410A hack you did or one of the many M20 hacks available?

My own (I wrote one of the many Hacks in the big book [Omerian Tales]).

I call it an M20 Hack, but it's basically a hodgepodge of assorted shit I like from various games, specifically:

*4 base stats (Strength, Dex, Mind and Presence).

*Modern Mods (12=+1, 14=+2 and so on)

*Prime stat increase +1 every even level (increase a non-prme by +1 at odd levels)

*Stat 'Rating'=Mod+Lvl Bonus+Prime Bonus (see below).

*Prime Bonus=flat +2 to that stat's rating.

*Attack rolls=Use associated ratings (STR=all melee and thrown); DEX=bows and some small weapons; MIND=GUNS! (yes, there are guns). Damage Mod=Rating/2, round up.

*Race/Class, with the big four races, plus gnomes. Classes=no clerics. If you want to be "clericy," you play a Spellsword and flavor your spell choices.

*Cap at level 10 (currently--might go with 14 as homage to LL, etc.)

*Level Bonus (+1, increase by +1 every odd level)

*Skill pools, by Stat base (flat +2 on a skill, start with 3-4, get a new one every odd level)

*HP's based on Strength score ([Stat/2]*Lvl).

*Saves based on Stat scores (Bonus=Stat/2+LvlBonus+Prime Bonus). Save target is always a 20.

*Maneuver System very much like Fantasy Age (gain and use Maneuver Points on rolls totaling 20 or more). Fighters get +1 MP's when they generate. Spellcasters get +1 when they get Spell maneuvers. Humans get a flat +1 to all MP totals (their main bonus over the other races).

*Dungeon World style encumbrance, to include a modified version of how DW tracks ammo and "adventuring gear." Going over Encumbrance penalizes AC and MV.

*5E hit dice style healing, with a bonus to the roll equal to your Endurance skill rating. Healer's Bags allow re-rolls of 1's on Hit Dice rolls. HD return at 1 per day (currently...might change this).

*Group INISH roll, with some bonuses for groups who have Leadership/Tactics skills represented.

*Heavy gear drops you in your group's INISH order (i.e., if I wear plate, I can go no better than 3rd during my team's INISH).

*Spells: adapted version of Fantasy Age spells, with 3 ranks per spell, with adaptation of Savage World "trappings" called styles. Casters determine their "styles" (i.e., fire, air, force, spirits, etc.). Mastery of additional styles means you can use the same spell, say a Bolt, but, in one instance, cast it as a "Thunderbolt," if you had the force style or an "Ice Bolt," if you had the "cold" style.

*I'm using B/X monsters, though I'm actually modifying those, too, bit by bit, by bringing their saves into line with the "Target 20" save, and granting some of them their own Manuevers. A Dragon's Breath weapon is actually a maneuver, but, as stronger dragon's will generally breach the 20 threshold quite a bit, they'll be able to use their BW more than weaker ones. I've been bouncing back and forth between the Microlite-81 monster list and 5E monsters to create these. So far, I've gotten from Aaracockra to Elemental, Air.

The only thing semi-sorta close to original is how languages are obtained. You spend points equal to MIND score to purchase languages beyond those you know thanks to Race or Class. So, if I had a 12 Intelligence, I could get Sylvan for 7 points and Trail Runes for 5, spending all my points. Some races/classes have discounts on language purchase. Linguistics skill lowers cost, plus helps obtain new languages more easily later on.

So, not much of an M20 Hack is it? :-) It's basically a homebrew, but nothing I can consider really homemade. I borrowed all the good ideas. I've run a few scenarios involving single character combat at different levels versus various threats. When the current DW campaign capstones, my poor home group will have the ignominious pleasure of playtesting this thing. The good news is, if it's just shitty, I'll drag out Microlite Purest Essence (or Allied Heroquest, because I've been wanting to scratch the nostalgia itch).

I like to purchase/download one or two adventures of each RPG I own, just to get a better feel for the system and to see the publisher's vision of an adventure for their system and/or setting.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;952404I have never understood the desire to simply consume, rather than create, in a hobby that features creativity as its largest advantage over other entertainment mediums.

I started playing in a Pathfinder group because I needed contact with other people.

The Pathfinder "adventure paths" are... horrible.  I mean, actively dull, boring, and predictable.  Crom.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;952439I started playing in a Pathfinder group because I needed contact with other people.

The Pathfinder "adventure paths" are... horrible.  I mean, actively dull, boring, and predictable.  Crom.

They make better reading material than adventures, I mined the first few and based a campaign idea on the Kingmaker one but I don't think I'd run one as is. I have the same problem with WotC's adventures it's all very, very scripted.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;952424Or to follow 'plot-lines.' Or to set up 'scenes.' Or to provide 'script-immunity.'

What makes roleplaying games great, in my experience, is all the many ways they aren't books, movies, televisions shows, plays, et al.

You are preaching to the choir on this site:).
You might be out of luck with people that like Adventure Paths and are proud of having played them all;).

Quote from: DavetheLost;952417I looked at the IS KS and said You've got to be kidding me. Then I backed the Kult KS instead.

I hadn't even seen it, since I didn't really like Numenera, but when I saw the price, my reaction was the same.
Alas, it seems many people didn't get it as a joke.

Quote from: cranebump;952428My own (I wrote one of the many Hacks in the big book [Omerian Tales]).

I call it an M20 Hack, but it's basically a hodgepodge of assorted shit I like from various games, specifically:

*4 base stats (Strength, Dex, Mind and Presence).

*Modern Mods (12=+1, 14=+2 and so on)

*Prime stat increase +1 every even level (increase a non-prme by +1 at odd levels)

*Stat 'Rating'=Mod+Lvl Bonus+Prime Bonus (see below).

*Prime Bonus=flat +2 to that stat's rating.

*Attack rolls=Use associated ratings (STR=all melee and thrown); DEX=bows and some small weapons; MIND=GUNS! (yes, there are guns). Damage Mod=Rating/2, round up.

*Race/Class, with the big four races, plus gnomes. Classes=no clerics. If you want to be "clericy," you play a Spellsword and flavor your spell choices.

*Cap at level 10 (currently--might go with 14 as homage to LL, etc.)

*Level Bonus (+1, increase by +1 every odd level)

*Skill pools, by Stat base (flat +2 on a skill, start with 3-4, get a new one every odd level)

*HP's based on Strength score ([Stat/2]*Lvl).

*Saves based on Stat scores (Bonus=Stat/2+LvlBonus+Prime Bonus). Save target is always a 20.

*Maneuver System very much like Fantasy Age (gain and use Maneuver Points on rolls totaling 20 or more). Fighters get +1 MP's when they generate. Spellcasters get +1 when they get Spell maneuvers. Humans get a flat +1 to all MP totals (their main bonus over the other races).

*Dungeon World style encumbrance, to include a modified version of how DW tracks ammo and "adventuring gear." Going over Encumbrance penalizes AC and MV.

*5E hit dice style healing, with a bonus to the roll equal to your Endurance skill rating. Healer's Bags allow re-rolls of 1's on Hit Dice rolls. HD return at 1 per day (currently...might change this).

*Group INISH roll, with some bonuses for groups who have Leadership/Tactics skills represented.

*Heavy gear drops you in your group's INISH order (i.e., if I wear plate, I can go no better than 3rd during my team's INISH).

*Spells: adapted version of Fantasy Age spells, with 3 ranks per spell, with adaptation of Savage World "trappings" called styles. Casters determine their "styles" (i.e., fire, air, force, spirits, etc.). Mastery of additional styles means you can use the same spell, say a Bolt, but, in one instance, cast it as a "Thunderbolt," if you had the force style or an "Ice Bolt," if you had the "cold" style.

*I'm using B/X monsters, though I'm actually modifying those, too, bit by bit, by bringing their saves into line with the "Target 20" save, and granting some of them their own Manuevers. A Dragon's Breath weapon is actually a maneuver, but, as stronger dragon's will generally breach the 20 threshold quite a bit, they'll be able to use their BW more than weaker ones. I've been bouncing back and forth between the Microlite-81 monster list and 5E monsters to create these. So far, I've gotten from Aaracockra to Elemental, Air.

The only thing semi-sorta close to original is how languages are obtained. You spend points equal to MIND score to purchase languages beyond those you know thanks to Race or Class. So, if I had a 12 Intelligence, I could get Sylvan for 7 points and Trail Runes for 5, spending all my points. Some races/classes have discounts on language purchase. Linguistics skill lowers cost, plus helps obtain new languages more easily later on.

So, not much of an M20 Hack is it? :-) It's basically a homebrew, but nothing I can consider really homemade. I borrowed all the good ideas. I've run a few scenarios involving single character combat at different levels versus various threats. When the current DW campaign capstones, my poor home group will have the ignominious pleasure of playtesting this thing. The good news is, if it's just shitty, I'll drag out Microlite Purest Essence (or Allied Heroquest, because I've been wanting to scratch the nostalgia itch).

Sounds good to me. Though with that list, I was expecting Laughs At and Fears bonuses, too:D!

Quote from: AsenRG;952460Sounds good to me. Though with that list, I was expecting Laughs At and Fears bonuses, too:D!

Oh, don't tempt me...:-)

Quote from: cranebump;952463Oh, don't tempt me...:-)

You know you want to do it...

Quote from: Exploderwizard;952404Improvisation and the ability of all participants to spontaneously create game content that is shared in the minds of everyone involved is the whole purpose of the tabletop rpg medium. Computer games do a much better job of presenting pre-scripted storylines to be followed & consumed. The graphics and cool visual effects just blow away even the most overproduced print product in sheer production value.

Part of the problem is lots of players now first encounter the term "RPG" in a video game. I know that was the case for me. The first campaign I ever ran was 4e, and I ran it like it was a tabletop Final Fantasy game (which is pretty much exactly how 4e presented itself). We all had fun, but I didn't really start to understand how a table top game could be different from a pen & paper version of Dragon Age until I picked up the AD&D 2e books on a lark a few years ago. As I read them, I realized much of what they described fit nowhere in the video game-based framework I imagined an RPG was. What does it mean for a monster to have 10% chance of eggs in its lair? "Number appearing?" The Fighter gets a keep and an army? How does that fit into my story?

I've since read a lot of OSR material and radically altered how I run and play D&D. The 5e books are a big step in the right direction in terms of not presenting D&D as a pen-and-paper video game, but there are a few things they lack, like random encounter tables.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;952439I started playing in a Pathfinder group because I needed contact with other people.

No gaming > Bad gaming.

And I thought you were the originator of that phrase!

Quote from: Tristram Evans;952261Are railroading GMs forcing players through their "chose your own adventure" story plots just the norm these days?

100% of the Living Campaigns - all the 5e and Pathfinder "official" campaign stuff in the FLGS.

Home games? Who knows? GMs who run adventures are a mixed bunch. Some expand beyond the product, others do not.

Quote from: Madprofessor;952266Clarification:

Prepping for what the PCs will do in their adventures = railroading
Prepping the world for the PCs to interact with =/= railroading

I am good with this definition.

Quote from: Necrozius;952270A compromise that's worked wonders for me is ending each session with a round table discussion on what the party plans to do next.

What a weirdo!! You talk to your players???