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Author Topic: Where has D&D gone?  (Read 22364 times)

Omega

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« Reply #210 on: March 16, 2017, 11:35:38 AM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;951838
It's clear a lot of roleplaying game publishers looked at that boom, and filled up their games with tons of crap - tokens, cards, beads, whateverthefuckever - to make the experience of [strike]playing[/strike] owning them more like board games.

Added to the still-extant trend of game lines released like collectible card games - fuck you, FFG - and the boutique movement hit its stride.

Overlooked in this [strike]trend[/strike] race toward overpriced, overwritten monstrosities is, at the end of the day, no one needs any of that Bandini Mountain of bullshit to play a roleplaying game.


1: Not all that may now. Previously... maybee. But even now RPGs with widget toys are still rare. Sure you might get an attendant minis line. But even that is rare.

2: As of last check FFG doesn't do collectible card games. They make "Living Card Games" which is just a fancy way of saying "Core game with small cheap expansions that come out regularly and quickly." This to the point that they UN-CCGed Netrunner when they bout it up and turned it into a standalone game all in one box. (Think they did some LCG expansions?) I don't think they've put out an actual collectible since 2000? If ever?

3: Here too theres been a drift to less overwrought RPG books. Though there is still the mad drive some have to try and hardback everything. Even Hasbro hasn't gone too overboard so far. They experimented with their Lego knock-offs for D&D and barely note that the minis wargame they have WizKids doing is usefull for minis for 5e D&D.

Charon's Little Helper

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« Reply #211 on: March 16, 2017, 02:16:36 PM »
Quote from: Omega;951910
1: Not all that may now. Previously... maybee. But even now RPGs with widget toys are still rare. Sure you might get an attendant minis line. But even that is rare.

2: As of last check FFG doesn't do collectible card games. They make "Living Card Games" which is just a fancy way of saying "Core game with small cheap expansions that come out regularly and quickly." This to the point that they UN-CCGed Netrunner when they bout it up and turned it into a standalone game all in one box. (Think they did some LCG expansions?) I don't think they've put out an actual collectible since 2000? If ever?

3: Here too theres been a drift to less overwrought RPG books. Though there is still the mad drive some have to try and hardback everything. Even Hasbro hasn't gone too overboard so far. They experimented with their Lego knock-offs for D&D and barely note that the minis wargame they have WizKids doing is usefull for minis for 5e D&D.

What!?  Someone ranting on the internet doesn't know what they're talking about?  I'm shocked!  Shocked I say!

Black Vulmea

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« Reply #212 on: March 16, 2017, 03:09:09 PM »
Quote from: Omega;951910
1: Not all that may now. Previously... maybee. But even now RPGs with widget toys are still rare.
Most of the biggest releases of the last five years or so came with widgets. They sold for stupid prices to even stupider gamers.

Quote from: Omega;951910
2: As of last check FFG doesn't do collectible card games.
Christ on a bloody tree, Omega, when did you become so gawdamn thick? 'LIKE a collectible card game,' meaning sold in incomplete fucking chunks.

Quote from: Omega;951910
3: Here too theres been a drift to less overwrought RPG books.
The fuck there is. FATE Core is a gawdamn brick - it's 'lite' only in comparison to the rules-bloated horrors that gamers of the Aughts and early Teens were raised on.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 03:21:17 PM by Black Vulmea »
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Black Vulmea

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« Reply #213 on: March 16, 2017, 03:09:56 PM »
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;951931
What!?  Someone ranting on the internet doesn't know what they're talking about?  I'm shocked!  Shocked I say!
When did you decide emulating Sommerjon was a good idea?
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Sommerjon

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« Reply #214 on: March 16, 2017, 11:41:18 PM »
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;951931
What!?  Someone ranting on the internet doesn't know what they're talking about?  I'm shocked!  Shocked I say!
Dude, it's velma, he has to look up to low hanging fruit.
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Herne's Son

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« Reply #215 on: March 16, 2017, 11:48:46 PM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;951939
The fuck there is. FATE Core is a gawdamn brick - it's 'lite' only in comparison to the rules-bloated horrors that gamers of the Aughts and early Teens were raised on.

But you must remember that Fate Core is explicitly a Toolkit game. The core of the system is actually very slim, but the book presents you with all the options you'd need to make it as detailed as you like. Fate Accelerated clocks in at less than 48 pages (or so, don't have my copy to hand).
You people are idiots. I'm out of here.

Voros
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« Reply #216 on: March 17, 2017, 07:10:41 AM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;951939
Most of the biggest releases of the last five years or so came with widgets. They sold for stupid prices to even stupider gamers.

Any examples?

san dee jota

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« Reply #217 on: March 17, 2017, 08:48:48 AM »
Quote from: Voros;952120
Any examples?

Mutant Year Zero had custom dice, cards, maps, etc.  Granted, it was all -optional- stuff.  And that's the way most of these "big releases" have been.
Outside of Star Wars (already mentioned), there really isn't anything major or well selling.

"But that Monte Cook game!"

Without looking it up, what is it called?  If you don't know what it's name is, is it a "big release"?  Besides, it was specifically targeting the exclusive collector with its specific exclusive nature.  It is -destined- to be forgotten as anything else, and I say it's less a game than a weird marketing experiment.  (I also predict a non-exclusive release version at some point.  If the market looks like it'd give half-a-shit about it anyway.)

I mean, Vulmea's whole problem seems to be "RPG companies are making stuff I don't like, and people are buying it, so I don't like them either."  At this point it's like someone shit out in the woods, and a guy is running through the streets screaming about it; yes we know it's stinky and bad, but we just choose to ignore it since it's not hurting anything and will decay and be forgotten in short order anyway.

cranebump

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« Reply #218 on: March 17, 2017, 09:15:48 AM »
Quote from: san dee jota;952131
I mean, Vulmea's whole problem seems to be "RPG companies are making stuff I don't like, and people are buying it, so I don't like them either."  At this point it's like someone shit out in the woods, and a guy is running through the streets screaming about it; yes we know it's stinky and bad, but we just choose to ignore it since it's not hurting anything and will decay and be forgotten in short order anyway.

That's sure what it seems like.

And, without looking it up, wasn't Cook's new shiny called "Numenara?"
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san dee jota

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« Reply #219 on: March 17, 2017, 09:32:27 AM »
Quote from: cranebump;952140
And, without looking it up, wasn't Cook's new shiny called "Numenara?"

Nope.  This was kickstarted last year.  (and yes, I had to look it up)

Llew ap Hywel

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« Reply #220 on: March 17, 2017, 10:36:40 AM »
Invisible Sun. Way too many bits and knobs to it.
Talk gaming or talk to someone else.

Charon's Little Helper

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« Reply #221 on: March 17, 2017, 11:20:19 AM »
While I agree that they can be overdone - I can see why some TTRPG creators wanted to get into having extra props.  And not just from a cynical - making more $ perspective.

I have played board games which weren't hard to get into, but when I took a step back I realized that there was a lot going on there.  It was clever use of the 'bits and knobs' which made the game far less complex than if it was just a book of instructions.

TTRPGs can normally do this somewhat with a well designed character sheet, but there are limits.  I know that when I played D&D 4e for a short time, I used index cards for all of the powers, tapping & flipping them MtG style - and it made gameplay go far more smoothly.  (I think they had official cards - but I was still in college at the time so I didn't want to burn the $ - and I didn't play 4e for long anyway.)

Perhaps that's the answer.  Have the fiddly bits be default for play - but make it possible to play without them and/or have them be relatively easy to make DIY versions.

fearsomepirate
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« Reply #222 on: March 17, 2017, 11:22:38 AM »
I think we should also keep in mind that 4e basically dropped a tactical nuke on 3rd parties, who are just now regaining their footing. Of course, Paizo has gone their own way and isn't coming back, but Kobold Press, Sasquatch Game Studios, and Frog God Games have been putting out a lot of work. I can't vouch for all of its quality, but I think we're starting to see that first tier of third parties start to differentiate itself.
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Charon's Little Helper

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« Reply #223 on: March 17, 2017, 11:25:04 AM »
Quote from: fearsomepirate;952169
Of course, Paizo has gone their own way and isn't coming back

And quite a few followed in Paizo's wake and are going to stay over in Pathfinder's neck of the woods.

Black Vulmea

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« Reply #224 on: March 17, 2017, 12:16:10 PM »
Quote from: san dee jota;952131
I mean, Vulmea's whole problem seems to be "RPG companies are making stuff I don't like, and people are buying it, so I don't like them either."
Says the jackhole who claims to hate 95% of the useless, derivative stuff out there.

For someone who agrees with my basic premise, you seem to be strangely interested in coming at me because . . . what, it's cool to disagree with the angry guy? A word of advice: I'm a fucking monkey throwing my shit - if you pick it up and throw it back, guess what that makes you? A fuckwit throwing the monkey's shit back in the cage.

For the slow-on-the-uptake, I'll reprise. The OP's argument is WhizBros should be publishing more crap like source books and supplements for 5e D&D because reasons. Gamers-as-consumers, in my experience, makes for a pool of witless, talentless gamers - alternately, they're already witless and talentless which is why they need someone else to do their imagining for them, but either way, the effect remains the same. Personally I would like to see more gamers put forth the effort to make their own content - creativity is a muscle that gets stronger the harder it's worked, and who doesn't want to play with ripped, rock-hard gamers . . . yeah, maybe not the best analogy, but you get the point.

Should no one ever buy modules or splats? Of course not, particularly given some of the really intriguing stuff that's available out there right now, but in my experience the best shit that's being published is coming from the DIY crew, not 'Big Gaming,' and the DIY releases tend to come it drips, not a firehose. They leave mental space for gamers to fill in the blanks of their own campaigns. They inspire, rather than replace, imagination and the creative impulse because they are limited in their reach.
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