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Author Topic: Where has D&D gone?  (Read 22359 times)

Gronan of Simmerya

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Where has D&D gone?
« Reply #150 on: March 13, 2017, 10:24:30 PM »
Quote from: HorusArisen;951023
Lol no I think I know who's posts are worth just skipping over now.

"whose"

No need to thank me... :D
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

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GameDaddy
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« Reply #151 on: March 13, 2017, 10:27:13 PM »
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;951052
Admittedly, I haven't played much of 5th (I like it a lot, as far as D&D goes) and I'm not knowledgeable about third-party stuff.

5th edition is actually pretty smooth, has a very 0D&D vibe to it, and I'm finding it ok as a player. So far we have only had one meltdown in our group over rules mechanics so it seems to be robust as well, and we haven't been hitting many snags. Other than being ridiculously miserly with exp, and treasure, 5e seems pretty good. (that just might be my GM though, not sure...)
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Charon's Little Helper

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« Reply #152 on: March 13, 2017, 10:29:53 PM »
Quote from: Voros;951078
Believe it was the guy behind Pelgrane Press and 13th Age who noted that when D&D does well, everyone else in RPGs does better.


From what I understand that's true of the market leader in a lot of niche industries.  They're the flagship for the industry, so if they do well and are well thought of, it's good for the industry as a whole.

estar

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« Reply #153 on: March 13, 2017, 10:31:29 PM »
Quote from: HorusArisen;951023
Lol no I think I know who's posts are worth just skipping over now.
That why we have a ignore button. However  before you do that I suggest reading through their posting history and learn just who they are before clicking it.


Quote from: HorusArisen;951023
You mentioned or I've read that the points of light books were now called Land of Adventure? Or am I having a senior moment? If you did where can I get that?


No, that the last title I used to cover all the hexcrawls I wrote. I retrain the copyright to the text and maps of both Points of Light and of course Blackmarsh. My master plan is to write and release a series of them under the umbrella. I have a setting that I sketched out to give them all a sense of continuity. However it applied with a light touch. The focus is on fleshing out whatever that map section details and will not only jump around geographically but in terms of time period as well. The plan is to make each work stand alone but for those who care they can be pieced together to paint the picture of a larger world and its history.

The problem is that I write slow. Like G.R.R. Martin slow. I used to be frustrated about it but I just accepted it and moved on. To make progress I try to write or draw maps at least 1/2 hour a day. Usually during my lunch break. The project that furthest along is an extensive revision of my original Majestic Wilderlands Supplement. The deal is that I hand sell my books to stores in my area. While the guys at Swords & Wizardry are great I can't afford to hand sell their books to stores like I can for my supplements. Plus in the years since 2009, I continued to referee and found that I developed a lot of stuff. Stuff I think people would be interested in as a complete ruleset.

This brings an important point about my philosophy for publishing my stuff. I don't want to do what everybody else does. I am at the point where I could release a complete MW RPG. However it would be just like any other RPG. Just like with Points of Light I could have defined a setting and say this map is Map 21 of Northeast continent of the Land of Adventure. Or with the Majestic Wilderlands and made it just a setting guide. Or the back half of the Scourge of the Demon Wolf is a regional supplement. What foremost in my mind is utility. Why should somebody buy my book and is it useful for a given campaign? And just as important that I explain why I think it useful.

This take time to figure out and execute.

Anyway here is a link to something you may not have for the Points of Lights book/ Blackmarsh. I made a map that only joined Blackmarsh with Southland but the Wild North hexcrawl that was published in Fight-On #3. http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2014/01/blackmarsh-southland-and-wild-north.html

Finally I am writing this rather verbose answer not to tote my own horn, although there is a little of that :-), but in conjunction with some of the other posts with questions about publishing. I think the OSR and the hobby has room yet another X with X being rules, adventures, or whatever. If the written in a strong voice with a little bit of text of explanation of why the author is doing what he is doing.
As to the RPG industry, no I think that there are a lot of great games out there and some fantastic material, I was mostly surprised that the latest edition of the first rpg was by comparison sadly lacking. And there's nothing wrong with pandering to collectors so long as your not rolling out tripe.

Quote from: HorusArisen;951023
I've always preferred my own worlds and adventures but I find a lot of value in the ideas and works of others and for a home campaign I'm not above plagiarism ;)


Which is why the key is diversity and thanks to technology and open content we have that. There just so much of it that it easy to think the hobby and industry are just the narrow slice that a person views. But it really that diverse.

Krimson

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« Reply #154 on: March 13, 2017, 11:30:09 PM »
Quote from: GameDaddy;951097
5th edition is actually pretty smooth, has a very 0D&D vibe to it, and I'm finding it ok as a player. So far we have only had one meltdown in our group over rules mechanics so it seems to be robust as well, and we haven't been hitting many snags. Other than being ridiculously miserly with exp, and treasure, 5e seems pretty good. (that just might be my GM though, not sure...)

It works pretty good for me. My players are people I've played BECMI/RC and 1e with since the 80s and they like it just fine. Maybe some gripes about stacking multiclassing vs parallel system but that's only for the AD&D player. The best way to mitigate that is to stick with one class, since 5e doesn't require multiclass dipping for a viable build like 3.x/d20 did. The thing I find is I have to hold back. I mean, you know how easy it is to TPK players with goblins, without using special tactics or anything? I start off light, and have reinforcements at the ready in case the PCs slice through them too quickly. It really doesn't feel much different in play than older editions which is nice.

The rules are solid. Advantage/Disadvantage save a lot of time. Saving throws based on ability scores don't require much explanation for old timers, and the spellcasters don't gripe about weaponized cantrips. Ever. The main appeal to me is the ability to find new players who know the game. If you want something closer to an old school experience, just use the Basic Rules and SRD. Ignore Feats and maybe Backgrounds and stick with the four basic classes and races. The advantage to that approach is that the Basic Rules and SRD are free online. Throw in a website like Donjon which works on a phone or tablet and building encounters becomes a snap.
"Anyways, I for one never felt like it had a worse 'yiff factor' than any other system." -- RPGPundit

Omega

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« Reply #155 on: March 14, 2017, 02:03:16 AM »
Quote from: HorusArisen;950953
I've no objection to professional third party material paper or PDF but even that's been scarce till now


Not as scarse as youd think. Wizkids is handling the minis. Gale Force is handling the DM screen and spell cards (and botched it here and there.) I think now three companies are writing modules and expansions and the Tarokka deck. Not sure if its Hasbro or WOTC who does the board game. and so on.

Unfortunately theres also some fake 5e material out there. Kobold was the first I ran into pulling that stunt.

Omega

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« Reply #156 on: March 14, 2017, 02:06:33 AM »
Quote from: HorusArisen;950955
Professional, quality material? As already discussed I'm not a big fan of fan work it's inconsistent in quality.

However I've had some good stuff pointed out to me as available or on the way.


The crazy thing is some of the non-professional stuff looks more professional that the professional stuff. Unfortunately there's rampant art theft going on to make some of those books look so good.

Omega

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« Reply #157 on: March 14, 2017, 02:08:35 AM »
Quote from: Tristram Evans;950987
and once again proof that all RPG arguments, at their heart, are about badwrongfun.


badwrongfun is badwrongfun you know... :eek:

Omega

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« Reply #158 on: March 14, 2017, 02:27:46 AM »
Quote from: HorusArisen;951023
As to the RPG industry, no I think that there are a lot of great games out there and some fantastic material, I was mostly surprised that the latest edition of the first rpg was by comparison sadly lacking.

And there's nothing wrong with pandering to collectors so long as your not rolling out tripe.

1: Loraine era TSR and then WOTC over did it and it created a backlash that still persists. WOTC for once actually payed attention and backed off on the splatmill. Wether or not they backed off on the edition treadmill is still unknown. But this IS WOTC so odds are 5e was doomed before playtest started.

2: There is everything wrong with pandering to collectors as other companies have found out the hard way. Pre-Loraine TSR understood that you needed solid modules and viable expansion books and thusly pretty much everything had alot of value to DMs who either arent good at making adventures or just wanted something to fall back on when they are caught blank. Or even just for some ideas to draw from.

Modules in particular should not be pandering to just the collector. Sorry. No. Im paying for an adventure to run the players through. Not your twenty page novella and then ten pages of adventure ideas... Save it for setting background books where it belongs. And on that subject. for fucks sake if you are going to turn your background into short stories. At least tell me about the damn place that is the subject. Adventurers Guide to the Sword Coast is currently way up there on my example list of background books that don't actually tell you much.

Baulderstone

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« Reply #159 on: March 14, 2017, 02:36:01 AM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;951012
Because that mountain of bullshit makes for dull, stupid gamers, and I don't want to get stuck across the table from one of you.


Me? I'm not a fan of product line bloat either. I just don't buy it.

As for getting stuck across the table from dull and stupid gamers, I usually game with friends or friends of friends, and its been a reliable way to ensure the people in the game are entertaining.

Llew ap Hywel

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« Reply #160 on: March 14, 2017, 03:53:02 AM »
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;951096
"whose"

No need to thank me... :D

Thank you ;)
Talk gaming or talk to someone else.

Spinachcat

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« Reply #161 on: March 14, 2017, 03:55:55 AM »
BTW, before we go waxing on about the professionalism of the main industry players, take a gander at what you own, what you actually use and what in their catalogue you never picked up.

It's easy to get nostalgic about TSR or WW or WotC quality. There were some gems. Maybe many gems. But damn, when I look at stuff at the Acaeum its amazing how much drek they put out over the years, not just stuff I owned and sold, but stuff I remember looking at and going WTF.


Quote from: Voros;950933
I heard the 4e online tools were pretty good.


They were fine. Nothing rocket science. Nothing any hobby programmer couldn't have cranked out.

But yet again, no mention of an online tabletop for D&D?

I didn't understand that mistake in 4e and it continues to make no sense.


Quote from: Black Vulmea;950985
Consumer tastes which drive the publication of a mountain of bullshit, most of it aimed at fucking collectors and shithouse readers.


The fucking collectors and shithouse readers are paying the bills and keeping the lights on.


Quote from: hexgrid;951027
Only on an RPG site is "skilled at masturbation" a signifier of manliness.


LOL!!!

Hexgrid, please post more often!


Quote from: estar;951094
If you wanted to live in a second golden age of tabletop roleplaying this past decade is it and it shows no sign of abating.


Very true!

Llew ap Hywel

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« Reply #162 on: March 14, 2017, 03:59:55 AM »
Quote from: Omega;951149
1: Loraine era TSR and then WOTC over did it and it created a backlash that still persists. WOTC for once actually payed attention and backed off on the splatmill. Wether or not they backed off on the edition treadmill is still unknown. But this IS WOTC so odds are 5e was doomed before playtest started.

2: There is everything wrong with pandering to collectors as other companies have found out the hard way. Pre-Loraine TSR understood that you needed solid modules and viable expansion books and thusly pretty much everything had alot of value to DMs who either arent good at making adventures or just wanted something to fall back on when they are caught blank. Or even just for some ideas to draw from.

Modules in particular should not be pandering to just the collector. Sorry. No. Im paying for an adventure to run the players through. Not your twenty page novella and then ten pages of adventure ideas... Save it for setting background books where it belongs. And on that subject. for fucks sake if you are going to turn your background into short stories. At least tell me about the damn place that is the subject. Adventurers Guide to the Sword Coast is currently way up there on my example list of background books that don't actually tell you much.

1: I enjoyed the 2e settings, Birthright and Darksun are still my favourites.

2: I did say as long as your not rolling out tripe. For example I have high hope for Mophidius and the Conan line.

Some, but not much of the nonprofessional stuff is good but most is just house rules. It's not minis and screens I enjoy, it's the written word. :)
Talk gaming or talk to someone else.

Voros
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« Reply #163 on: March 14, 2017, 06:21:56 AM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;951179
The fucking collectors and shithouse readers are paying the bills and keeping the lights on.

Something I learned a long time ago when I helped friends put on shows, if only the people who care about the band and music show up you're fucked. You need the casuals, friends, people just there to drink and fuck to show up to make money.

Black Vulmea

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« Reply #164 on: March 14, 2017, 11:00:30 AM »
Quote from: Baulderstone;951154
As for getting stuck across the table from dull and stupid gamers, I usually game with friends or friends of friends, and its been a reliable way to ensure the people in the game are entertaining.

And gamers clutch their pearls about why the 'hobby' doesn't 'grow.'

Hiding in little insular groups, afraid to go out and meet people for fear of being judged or unwilling to take risks on other human beings - don't ever utter a fucking peep about what 'game companies' should be doing to expand the market,
"Of course five generic Kobolds in a plain room is going to be dull. Making it potentially not dull is kinda the GM's job." - #Ladybird, theRPGsite

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