When you Roll your Stats, do you insist upon Straight Down the Line; or Arrange?

Godsmonkey · December 10, 2021, 08:52:07 AM

I'm currently GMing Stars Without number, and use, the 3D6 straight down method, and allow players to replace any one stat with a 14. In SWN, the mods for attributes are very low, (3=-2, 4-7 = -1, 14=17 = +1, 18=+2) so Stats arent as swingy as D&D.

Eric Diaz · December 10, 2021, 10:05:10 AM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 09, 2021, 11:22:06 AM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on December 09, 2021, 10:46:57 AMI came up with an yin-yang method (AFAICT) but people tell me it's too complicated.

https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2016/07/old-school-d-and-yin-yang-method-of.html

I don't see it as being complicated. However, it does look like all characters with a specific strength will all have the exact same intelligence. i.e. every character with a strength of 14 will have an int of 7 (or 10 depending on which number you use 21 or 24).

Agreed, and it bothers me too, so I allow some swapping (or adding a few bonuses to one of your stats, etc.).

Now that I think of it, maybe I could add some more randomness; e.g, roll 4d6 pick highest for Str, if the result is bigger than 15 you roll 4d6 pick and must discard the best (or second best). Still, I wanted to avoid players with superb or abysmal stats.

Klytus · December 10, 2021, 10:18:10 AM

4d6 drop the lowest assign as you want since 1983.

RebelSky · December 10, 2021, 11:45:10 AM

4d6 - Lowest die, straight down the line with 1 swap

Or

3d6 twice for each stat straight down the line with 1 swap. Keep best roll for each stat, unless the player really wants to play with a lower stat.

mightybrain · December 10, 2021, 12:12:34 PM

I've often wondered why use tricks to create above average stats for PCs, when you could assign below average stats for NPCs and balance it that way. It seems like unnecessary faff that applies an exception for every case.

Eric Diaz · December 10, 2021, 03:42:46 PM

Quote from: mightybrain on December 10, 2021, 12:12:34 PM
I've often wondered why use tricks to create above average stats for PCs, when you could assign below average stats for NPCs and balance it that way. It seems like unnecessary faff that applies an exception for every case.

Well, the baseline of "10 is the average" is really intuitive; and it it already gives a small edge to 3d6 PCs (average 10.5).

Jam The MF · December 10, 2021, 05:54:14 PM

Quote from: Blankman on December 09, 2021, 11:40:47 AM
For TSR/OSR D&D I like a few different options.
3D6 straight down then optionally swap two stats (gives some ability to choose a particular stat to be good at).
3D6 twice choose the better roll straight down the line (gives somewhat better stats but still has randomness as to which stats are good for any given character).
3D6 straight down the line but ability to lower some scores to raise others, Basic D&D style.

For other games with random generation of stats it will depend, but usually the standard given option.

One of your suggestions has caught my interest.

Roll 2 Sets of 3d6, and keep the highest score; Straight Down the Line.

3d6 Straight Down the Line, rarely creates a character I'd want to play myself. I hate to force that upon someone else; so I've used 4d6 Drop the Lowest, Straight Down the Line, instead. I think I can buy into Roll 2 Sets of 3d6, and keep the highest score; Straight Down the Line. Good Suggestion.

jhkim · December 10, 2021, 06:22:06 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 10, 2021, 05:54:14 PM
One of your suggestions has caught my interest.

Roll 2 Sets of 3d6, and keep the highest score; Straight Down the Line.

3d6 Straight Down the Line, rarely creates a character I'd want to play myself. I hate to force that upon someone else; so I've used 4d6 Drop the Lowest, Straight Down the Line, instead. I think I can buy into Roll 2 Sets of 3d6, and keep the highest score; Straight Down the Line. Good Suggestion.

So for each stat, roll 3d6 twice and take the higher total? That's similar to the standard best 3 of 4d6 overall. I was curious so I ran the stats:

Best 3 of 4d6
3 : 0.1
4 : 0.3
5 : 0.8
6 : 1.6
7 : 2.9
8 : 4.8
9 : 7.0
10 : 9.4
11 : 11.4
12 : 12.9
13 : 13.3
14 : 12.3
15 : 10.1
16 : 7.3
17 : 4.2
18 : 1.6
Average 12.24

Best of two 3d6 rolls
3 : 0.0
4 : 0.0
5 : 0.2
6 : 0.6
7 : 1.8
8 : 4.1
9 : 7.3
10 : 10.9
11 : 14.1
12 : 15.8
13 : 15.3
14 : 12.1
15 : 8.6
16 : 5.4
17 : 2.7
18 : 0.9
Average 12.18

So the overall average is very close, but the best of two 3d6 rolls is more sharply peaked around 11-13. It has less chance of getting a 15 or higher, but also less chance of getting 9 or less.

Chainsaw · December 10, 2021, 07:49:22 PM

Lean toward 3d6 straight down for OD&D and 4d6/drop lowest/arrange for AD&D. Having said that, I'm fairly flexible and open to whatever as long as no one cries and whines when they lose their save or die, get level-drained, etc.

Jam The MF · December 10, 2021, 08:44:46 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 10, 2021, 06:22:06 PM
Quote from: Jam The MF on December 10, 2021, 05:54:14 PM
One of your suggestions has caught my interest.

Roll 2 Sets of 3d6, and keep the highest score; Straight Down the Line.

3d6 Straight Down the Line, rarely creates a character I'd want to play myself. I hate to force that upon someone else; so I've used 4d6 Drop the Lowest, Straight Down the Line, instead. I think I can buy into Roll 2 Sets of 3d6, and keep the highest score; Straight Down the Line. Good Suggestion.

So for each stat, roll 3d6 twice and take the higher total? That's similar to the standard best 3 of 4d6 overall. I was curious so I ran the stats:

Best 3 of 4d6
3 : 0.1
4 : 0.3
5 : 0.8
6 : 1.6
7 : 2.9
8 : 4.8
9 : 7.0
10 : 9.4
11 : 11.4
12 : 12.9
13 : 13.3
14 : 12.3
15 : 10.1
16 : 7.3
17 : 4.2
18 : 1.6
Average 12.24

Best of two 3d6 rolls
3 : 0.0
4 : 0.0
5 : 0.2
6 : 0.6
7 : 1.8
8 : 4.1
9 : 7.3
10 : 10.9
11 : 14.1
12 : 15.8
13 : 15.3
14 : 12.1
15 : 8.6
16 : 5.4
17 : 2.7
18 : 0.9
Average 12.18

So the overall average is very close, but the best of two 3d6 rolls is more sharply peaked around 11-13. It has less chance of getting a 15 or higher, but also less chance of getting 9 or less.

Those results are interesting. It seems that 2 Sets of 3d6, eliminates getting a 3, 4, or 5?

Armchair Gamer · December 10, 2021, 09:08:32 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 10, 2021, 08:44:46 PM

Those results are interesting. It seems that 2 Sets of 3d6, eliminates getting a 3, 4, or 5?

Eliminates? No. But it does reduce the odds to infinitesimal.
Odds of a 3 on 4d6k3=1/1,296 (you need to roll a 1 on all three dice)
Odds of a 3 on 3d6 * 2 = 1/46,656 (you need to roll all 1s on both rolls)

(Odds of a 4 on 4d6k3=4/1,296, or 1/324. Odds of a 4 on 3d6*2=11/46,656.)

Persimmon · December 10, 2021, 10:00:08 PM

Forever we used the pretty standard 4d6, drop the lowest and arrange as desired. Now I alter it a bit by doing 4d6, drop the lowest but keep the order. Interestingly when we rolled up 12 new characters for a campaign last spring, I think there were only 2 ability scores of 18 rolled, though nothing below a 5 either.

PsyXypher · December 11, 2021, 12:03:04 AM

My system uses 4d6 eight times, arrange into stats as preferred. Every level up gives 2 stat points that may be arranged as desired.

Svenhelgrim · December 11, 2021, 10:01:33 AM

Method V. Just like Gary intended.

Pat · December 11, 2021, 10:35:33 AM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on December 11, 2021, 10:01:33 AM
Method V. Just like Gary intended.

Method V cavalier-paladins!