BRP/RQ have both gone to Point Buy systems recently and they are the best character generation rules of the various versions. An even better one would be to combine the two, but that's a reflection on the way they do things not the Point Buy system.

I was never really a fan, preferring random rolling for characteristics, but I am equally happy to do it that way or by allocating points to characteristics. The Point Buy system generally results in high INT/DEX, sometimes high SIZ and low values for other characteristics, because of the relative importance of certain characterictics. Point Buy also seems to result in characters with lowere characteristic scores.

Point Buy of skills works really well in both systems, although I prefer the way that BRP does it, to a certain extent.

In my opinion. Point Buy might result in physically similar characters, but in RQ/BRP their skills/abilities will be different because of the backgrounds/professions.

One thing that does bug me, perhaps for no good reason, is that when you assign points you find that the lower allocations become meaningless.

So if you have a system that's 'rate a couple of stats high, and a couple of stats low', the low rating, usually 1 or 2, just becomes meaningless. Is there not a better way of doing this, rather than havign each player pick a few stats as their rubbish stats knowing they'll never be used - if only because another player does those things better. Seems a wasted opportunity to me.

Quote from: Cranewings;467027I'm ok with dice rolling within bounds. D&D dice rolling is an emersion killer for me.

There are lots and lots and lots of real people with nothing special about them that are fast, strong, smart, funny and capable of making good decisions. D&D and a lot of other games act as if you can't be fit and smart at the same time, and its fucking stupid.

For the 3-18 stat line, I'd be ok with 8+1d10 or something, but knowing head of time that your character is going to be either an puss, retarded, or ugly because your get six rolls on an even spread sucks.

Are you fucking joking?!

If anything, with D&D there is a total chance that my randomly-generated character could have 18s across the board. On the other hand, with most point buy it is GUARANTEED that a fit character won't be smart or a smart character won't be fit, just because you won't have the motherfucking points.   You'll always either be really good at one thing but awful at something else, or mediocre across the board.

The whole fucking POINT of random ability scores is that it is anti deterministic, it suggests that you might have some people who are ugly, stupid and weak, and others who are strong, agile, smart, wise and charismatic.  And you could potentially have fun playing any of the above.

RPGPundit

Quote from: soltakss;467228BRP/RQ have both gone to Point Buy systems recently and they are the best character generation rules of the various versions. An even better one would be to combine the two, but that's a reflection on the way they do things not the Point Buy system.

I was never really a fan, preferring random rolling for characteristics, but I am equally happy to do it that way or by allocating points to characteristics. The Point Buy system generally results in high INT/DEX, sometimes high SIZ and low values for other characteristics, because of the relative importance of certain characterictics. Point Buy also seems to result in characters with lowere characteristic scores.

Point Buy of skills works really well in both systems, although I prefer the way that BRP does it, to a certain extent.

In my opinion. Point Buy might result in physically similar characters, but in RQ/BRP their skills/abilities will be different because of the backgrounds/professions.

One thing I miss in the last versions of RQ and BRP is a random chart of professions. Those who like rolling their profession should have had the option.

Quote from: RPGPundit;467860Are you fucking joking?!

If anything, with D&D there is a total chance that my randomly-generated character could have 18s across the board. On the other hand, with most point buy it is GUARANTEED that a fit character won't be smart or a smart character won't be fit, just because you won't have the motherfucking points.   You'll always either be really good at one thing but awful at something else, or mediocre across the board.

The whole fucking POINT of random ability scores is that it is anti deterministic, it suggests that you might have some people who are ugly, stupid and weak, and others who are strong, agile, smart, wise and charismatic.  And you could potentially have fun playing any of the above.

RPGPundit

We agree on something!

Meh. Point buy, I can take it or leave it. I basically don't have the insecurities that make people swear by point buy, and yet I can come up with shit if it's in use.

Quote from: RPGPundit;467860Are you fucking joking?!

If anything, with D&D there is a total chance that my randomly-generated character could have 18s across the board. On the other hand, with most point buy it is GUARANTEED that a fit character won't be smart or a smart character won't be fit, just because you won't have the motherfucking points.   You'll always either be really good at one thing but awful at something else, or mediocre across the board.

The whole fucking POINT of random ability scores is that it is anti deterministic, it suggests that you might have some people who are ugly, stupid and weak, and others who are strong, agile, smart, wise and charismatic.  And you could potentially have fun playing any of the above.

RPGPundit

Point buy in my games is the highest possible, but I don't allow bonus points for stats under 10. Players can lower a stat under average in exchange for starting wealth or a few skill points, but stats have a cap. If there is a RPing reason for low stats you really want, you can have it, but dumping stats for oddly high attributes doesn't happen. Its the best system for my taste.

While you are right, and someone could have all good stats rolling, I've only ever seen it once (counting times where you had to keep your first spread). Most gamers just reroll their stats until they get what they like, so even 3d6 straight tends to produce stats higher than point buy.

Amber has the best point buy system.
Although I think you need partial powers to make it most effective and interesting.

I prefer point buy because if I have an idea for a character i don' twant it scuppered by random dice rolls.

Quote from: jibbajibba;467916Amber has the best point buy system.

That's because only the power-buying is actually point-buy.  The rest is an auction, which is not really pointbuy in practice (while certainly not being random, either).

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;468037That's because only the power-buying is actually point-buy.  The rest is an auction, which is not really pointbuy in practice (while certainly not being random, either).

RPGPundit

Well you have points and you buy thing withthem so .... - guess my point would be you are still buying things in an auction they just have an unpredictable cost.

Well fair enough, but I suppose to the point-buy fanatic part of the purpose of point-buy is that you have strict and total control over what your character will look like and where and how you can spend the points.  In Amber you don't really get that thanks to the randomizing effect of the auction.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;468110In Amber you don't really get that thanks to the randomizing effect of the auction.

The auction doesn't have to be random at all. Moreover, folks can total eschew it.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;468148The auction doesn't have to be random at all. Moreover, folks can total eschew it.

Seanchai

There's always the potential element of randomness in it.  Also, you can not bid, but you can't "totally eschew" the auction in the sense that if you don't bid you are afterwards trapped by those attribute-levels that other people chose to establish.  If you don't bid, and were planning to spend 25 on Warfare, and it turns out the only two ranks available on warfare are 1 and 59 points, then there's much of your plan going out the window.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;468161There's always the potential element of randomness in it.

Yes, there is. There's also the potential for it not to be random at all, for the players to get together and work in a concerted effort to get what they want and what levels they want, particularly if they're experienced.

Quote from: RPGPundit;468161Also, you can not bid, but you can't "totally eschew" the auction in the sense that if you don't bid you are afterwards trapped by those attribute-levels that other people chose to establish.

That's just semantic wankery on your part. I said folks can skip the auction. They can. I didn't say they wouldn't be affected the auction.

Seanchai