Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.

"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"

"From the dungeon loot."

"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."

"I bought a lootbox."

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:36:16 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.

"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"

"From the dungeon loot."

"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."

"I bought a lootbox."

All the guyliner on Andrew Wilson's face would run with tears of joy for $2 from a D&D Loot box even if it cost him $10K by losing a lifetime customer.  EA is a horribly managed short term thinking company now.  If they were a nuclear power plant, there would be fukushimas all over the place.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:54:38 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:36:16 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.

"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"

"From the dungeon loot."

"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."

"I bought a lootbox."

All the guyliner on Andrew Wilson's face would run with tears of joy for $2 from a D&D Loot box even if it cost him $10K by losing a lifetime customer.  EA is a horribly managed short term thinking company now.  If they were a nuclear power plant, there would be fukushimas all over the place.

This is just insane gibberish!

How does 10k over a lifetime boost this Quarter's earnings? If it doesn't make the numbers go up NOW, no bonuses. You're not very good at being a corporate locust, I can tell you never went to Harvard Business school!

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 05:20:48 PM

Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2024, 03:51:16 PM
Anyone thinking D&D is going to collapse is deluding themselves.

The game will see a decline in popularity. The Microsoft executives working for WotC are going to bleed their consumers dry with the VTT. As people drift off, WotC will squeeze harder. Their platform will stabilize on a smaller customer base than the current crop of players, but they'll be providing WotC with higher and more consistent revenue.

The D&D "lifestyle" people will continue. Women will continue to buy their coffee mugs about how they're so totally a bunch of raging tiefling barbarians if they don't get their coffee.

No "real" game company will ever get their hands on D&D again. D&D will also never die an ignominious death. We will all go to our graves watching D&D be twisted and molested by soulless corporate executives to sell to the latest crop of hip young 20-somethings with weird hair and no respect for the hobby. None of us will ever get the satisfaction of seeing D&D finally fail. There will be no retribution for how this company or that executive butchered the game.

Some of us will cling to hope, shaking our fists at the sky, alternating between prayers for a reckoning and deliverance, neither of which will ever come.

We are going through a recession that has been put off from the 2008 recession, do you think Hasbro will survive it?  Do you think President Dementia Hitler will give Hasbro a bailout, Hasbro is going down in flames.

Hasbro's stock has fallen 45% over 5 years and its continuing to fall.  Hasbro sells luxury goods (toys) in a market where people are going to be having problems paying rent, electric bill and food for the family.  Hasbro's toys are based on ESG brands from Disney and no one is buying it.  Hasbro is going all out on a VTT to "save Hasbro" for a game is all over the web on multiple VTT's that does it better than what Hasbro will ever be able to do, while it also alienated ALL of its 3rd party vendors who have created their own 5E clones to avoid OGL entanglement and steal D&D's lunch.  And oh, that VTT Hasbro is selling is to make everyone pay more for D&D during the mother of all recessions - more like Great Depression 2.0 WEF edition when there are other VTT's where they can play the game the way they always have played.

We are looking at another 4E style debacle for 6E launch (2 of 3 fails for 4E are present in 6E):

-New OGL pissed off developers they have peeled off
-New VTT that may or may not be supported but will totally be cool

The only fail not present is that 6E is staying somewhat close to 5E rules but likely with more nerfs to monster lethality.

It is more likely than not that Hasbro will not make it out of the economic downturn.  If that happens, then D&D gets spun off.  The money to save dead companies just isn't there now.

Here is what I think.

Suppose there are only two possibilities.

1) Hasbro goes bankrupt and has to sell off D&D.
2) There really is a God after all, somebody has personally offended him somehow, and we're all living in the personal Hell that God created specifically to torment that person.

I think #2 is the more likely scenario, even though that would mean there actually would be a Hell that could freeze over as the precondition for scenario #1.

Of course I don't think Hasbro is a healthy company. If they were, the prospect of their bankruptcy wouldn't be such a seductive cocktease for everyone to get all worked up about.

Hasbro is going to Sears itself.  Hasbro toys will eventually be gone, there will be a holding company or some other bullshit with managers acting as salary vampires against the company to justify the Hasbro board.  The actual company left will be Avalon Hill and WotC.  Hasbro will strip mine its IP and sell it off chunk by chunk starting with Avalon Hill till its gone then WotC till all that is left is MTG.

Just look at how Kmart bought Sears and just sold itself into oblivion and did not put an actual fight.  It was just bankruptcy after bankruptcy as the board ate the company to death.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 12, 2024, 04:42:32 AM
Hasbro is going to Sears itself.  Hasbro toys will eventually be gone, there will be a holding company or some other bullshit with managers acting as salary vampires against the company to justify the Hasbro board.  The actual company left will be Avalon Hill and WotC.  Hasbro will strip mine its IP and sell it off chunk by chunk starting with Avalon Hill till its gone then WotC till all that is left is MTG.

Just look at how Kmart bought Sears and just sold itself into oblivion and did not put an actual fight.  It was just bankruptcy after bankruptcy as the board ate the company to death.

I think you are right about the motivation of the board and officers. People think these companies are all run by intelligent people who want the best for the company and the shareholders, but it is often quite the opposite. Once things start going bad that is just a great opportunity for these parasites to suck the company dry until there is nothing left. Occasionally you get management that is competent and work for the best interests of the company, but not often. I don't think Hasbro is one of those companies.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:36:16 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.

"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"

"From the dungeon loot."

"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."

"I bought a lootbox."

Well the plan seems to be to make the DM subservient to the players. Just a vend bot for storygamers pretending to play an RPG.

No wonder they want an AI DM.

Quote from: Omega on January 12, 2024, 09:44:58 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:36:16 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.

"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"

"From the dungeon loot."

"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."

"I bought a lootbox."

Well the plan seems to be to make the DM subservient to the players. Just a vend bot for storygamers pretending to play an RPG.

No wonder they want an AI DM.

Press 1 to hit the orange Lich in the face with your magic bike-lock.
Press 2 to have sex with your demisexual otherkin Henchpersons.
press 3 to be reminded how stunning and brave you are.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 12, 2024, 11:14:34 PM

Quote from: Omega on January 12, 2024, 09:44:58 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:36:16 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.

"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"

"From the dungeon loot."

"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."

"I bought a lootbox."

Well the plan seems to be to make the DM subservient to the players. Just a vend bot for storygamers pretending to play an RPG.

No wonder they want an AI DM.

Press 1 to hit the orange Lich in the face with your magic bike-lock.
Press 2 to have sex with your demisexual otherkin Henchpersons.
press 3 to be reminded how stunning and brave you are.

Ha!!!

Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PM
Honestly, I think that even bankruptcy and being sold off won't save anything.

The problem with Hasbro is mostly that their Disney toys have been left to rot on store shelves over the last few years. Especially Star Wars toys; no one wants Sequel Trilogy toys. It's hard to see this NOT death spiraling for Hasbro because poor sales mean their planogram space will get cut. Unless Hasbro gets a super-hot property yesterday the toy division will death spiral.

I meander through Ollie's once every week or two. For those that don't know, Ollie's is a discount chain that sells random stuff. In the last month (two stores) I've seen lots of Disney action figures (Marvel mostly, but also Star Wars). This week they've got a major sale on D&D stuff- $9.99 for that Krynn game (had a whole pallet's worth on display) and something else D&D minis related (far fewer of these). Person in front of me in the checkout line had 6-8 of the Krynn things (maybe for ebay?) and a few of the others. This was deep in Team Blue turf (40 minutes outside DC). The deep in Team Red store had fewer action figures and at least some were knock offs by brands I've never heard of.

Oh, and they had a half dozen of the Acrobat and Ranger figures from the 80s cartoon.

Quote from: Howard on January 13, 2024, 12:10:40 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PM
Honestly, I think that even bankruptcy and being sold off won't save anything.

The problem with Hasbro is mostly that their Disney toys have been left to rot on store shelves over the last few years. Especially Star Wars toys; no one wants Sequel Trilogy toys. It's hard to see this NOT death spiraling for Hasbro because poor sales mean their planogram space will get cut. Unless Hasbro gets a super-hot property yesterday the toy division will death spiral.

I meander through Ollie's once every week or two. For those that don't know, Ollie's is a discount chain that sells random stuff. In the last month (two stores) I've seen lots of Disney action figures (Marvel mostly, but also Star Wars). This week they've got a major sale on D&D stuff- $9.99 for that Krynn game (had a whole pallet's worth on display) and something else D&D minis related (far fewer of these). Person in front of me in the checkout line had 6-8 of the Krynn things (maybe for ebay?) and a few of the others. This was deep in Team Blue turf (40 minutes outside DC). The deep in Team Red store had fewer action figures and at least some were knock offs by brands I've never heard of.

Oh, and they had a half dozen of the Acrobat and Ranger figures from the 80s cartoon.

I also checked an Ollie's location.  They had the Krynn box set.  I didn't notice any minis.  They had larger action figures, but I wasn't interested in those.  I was hoping to see miniatures to scale, on clearance.  I didn't need any, but if they had been cheap.....

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 13, 2024, 01:58:58 AM

Quote from: Howard on January 13, 2024, 12:10:40 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PM
Honestly, I think that even bankruptcy and being sold off won't save anything.

The problem with Hasbro is mostly that their Disney toys have been left to rot on store shelves over the last few years. Especially Star Wars toys; no one wants Sequel Trilogy toys. It's hard to see this NOT death spiraling for Hasbro because poor sales mean their planogram space will get cut. Unless Hasbro gets a super-hot property yesterday the toy division will death spiral.

I meander through Ollie's once every week or two. For those that don't know, Ollie's is a discount chain that sells random stuff. In the last month (two stores) I've seen lots of Disney action figures (Marvel mostly, but also Star Wars). This week they've got a major sale on D&D stuff- $9.99 for that Krynn game (had a whole pallet's worth on display) and something else D&D minis related (far fewer of these). Person in front of me in the checkout line had 6-8 of the Krynn things (maybe for ebay?) and a few of the others. This was deep in Team Blue turf (40 minutes outside DC). The deep in Team Red store had fewer action figures and at least some were knock offs by brands I've never heard of.

Oh, and they had a half dozen of the Acrobat and Ranger figures from the 80s cartoon.

I also checked an Ollie's location.  They had the Krynn box set.  I didn't notice any minis.  They had larger action figures, but I wasn't interested in those.  I was hoping to see miniatures to scale, on clearance.  I didn't need any, but if they had been cheap.....

Looks to be 'TERRAIN OR CREATURES' campaign cases for $2.99 (vs. around $19 list price) based upon their ad. Like I said, there seemed to be fewer of them if any. Nothing looks like it was in the 25mm or similar scale (the cartoon stuff was 6" scale).

Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PMThings are...OK in WotC. Almost all of the revenue is from Magic and Magic has been printing money with the most aggressively anti-consumer practices imaginable. Hiring the Pinkertons, a $1000 pack of proxy cards, being repeatedly caught with AI art when they said they wouldn't use AI art....yeah, WotC is making money, but I guarantee the reason Hasbro told them to lay people off was because everyone knows that the money was yesterday and there will be no free cash flow tomorrow.

D&D is WotC's smaller property. Even that's down because people cancelled their D&D Beyond subscriptions back during the OGL. Baldur's Gate is literally the only thing holding the sky up.

There isn't any logical reason for WotC to exist as a separate division. The sales and marketing for D&D and M:TG don't really overlap much and they are more similar to other Hasbro brands than to each other. If Hasbro goes through an extended financial downturn, the first action I'd expect is for Hasbro to close their office in Seattle and split D&D and M:TG back into the various Hasbro departments where they fit better. Either that or spin them off for sale. But I don't see much future for the WotC "brand" as it is fairly pointless already.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 13, 2024, 10:39:34 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PMThings are...OK in WotC. Almost all of the revenue is from Magic and Magic has been printing money with the most aggressively anti-consumer practices imaginable. Hiring the Pinkertons, a $1000 pack of proxy cards, being repeatedly caught with AI art when they said they wouldn't use AI art....yeah, WotC is making money, but I guarantee the reason Hasbro told them to lay people off was because everyone knows that the money was yesterday and there will be no free cash flow tomorrow.

D&D is WotC's smaller property. Even that's down because people cancelled their D&D Beyond subscriptions back during the OGL. Baldur's Gate is literally the only thing holding the sky up.

There isn't any logical reason for WotC to exist as a separate division. The sales and marketing for D&D and M:TG don't really overlap much and they are more similar to other Hasbro brands than to each other. If Hasbro goes through an extended financial downturn, the first action I'd expect is for Hasbro to close their office in Seattle and split D&D and M:TG back into the various Hasbro departments where they fit better. Either that or spin them off for sale. But I don't see much future for the WotC "brand" as it is fairly pointless already.

D&D and MTG makes sense to keep together, they are gaming divisions dealing with fantasy.  So far WotC has been trying to merge MTG into D&D, never took.  But they did put in D&D creatures into MTG successfully through cards.  The writers for the novels for MTG or D&D can work on either IP.  They should roll Avalon Hill into WotC.  Next spin WotC off as a spearate company and let Hasbro fucking die, its a dog.  Hasbro went full ESG for a company that sells toys to children, no sane parent wants that ass cancer companies goods in their homes.