Quote from: yosemitemike on January 09, 2024, 08:48:45 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 09, 2024, 07:59:23 PM
I'm open to an alternative title for brands where they are about everything but the original concept.

That's a merchandise brand.  A lifestyle brand doesn't just sell you stuff.  It sells you a lifestyle.  REI sells stuff like jackets and hiking boots.  They don't just sell stuff though.  What they are really selling is that outdoors lifestyle.  They sell branded tents but what they are really selling is this.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Yosemitemike, that's a very sharp observation you have there! I like it. Very true, too. Not *just* tents and gear--but *THAT*. *Laughing*

Cute, laughing girls, crisp, sunny mornings, yummy, hot coffee...the invigorating environment of nature...damn, REI is going big there, huh?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 09, 2024, 08:48:45 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 09, 2024, 07:59:23 PM
I'm open to an alternative title for brands where they are about everything but the original concept.

That's a merchandise brand.  A lifestyle brand doesn't just sell you stuff.  It sells you a lifestyle.  REI sells stuff like jackets and hiking boots.  They don't just sell stuff though.  What they are really selling is that outdoors lifestyle.  They sell branded tents but what they are really selling is this.

PxxNTxNG

I'd like to solve the puzzle....

You guys may be forgetting that Geek/Nerd is supposed to be a lifestyle. I'm a Geek/Nerd, so here are my licensed brand clothing and display pieces. I'm living my best geek life, #SuchANerd! (picture of watching a Marvel movie.)

To us they're hobbies, to the "I'm SO Sheldon!" set it's a lifestyle.

I suspect whomever bought D&D could make money on the IP and still have a small group keep the table top version alive.
I also think that such a small group could easily make a profit large enough to justify their existence (if the group wasn't woke and chasing off customers and producing trash). That last part is the hard part of course but not that hard if someone intelligence buys the thing.

If Hasbro goes BK, it will be Chapter 11. AKA, they will not be selling off anything of real value, just tossing or renegotiating debt.

Ch11 BK is a really impressive business tool. They could easily dump non-performing brands or divisions, or just spin them off where they dump both people and products.

If anything, Hasbro would be in far better shape post BK.

They'll keep D&D...even if their crazy bet on a digital 6e fails. The licensing opportunities alone are worth keeping D&D even if they never produce another tabletop RPG edition.

Anyone thinking D&D is going to collapse is deluding themselves.

The game will see a decline in popularity. The Microsoft executives working for WotC are going to bleed their consumers dry with the VTT. As people drift off, WotC will squeeze harder. Their platform will stabilize on a smaller customer base than the current crop of players, but they'll be providing WotC with higher and more consistent revenue.

The D&D "lifestyle" people will continue. Women will continue to buy their coffee mugs about how they're so totally a bunch of raging tiefling barbarians if they don't get their coffee.

No "real" game company will ever get their hands on D&D again. D&D will also never die an ignominious death. We will all go to our graves watching D&D be twisted and molested by soulless corporate executives to sell to the latest crop of hip young 20-somethings with weird hair and no respect for the hobby. None of us will ever get the satisfaction of seeing D&D finally fail. There will be no retribution for how this company or that executive butchered the game.

Some of us will cling to hope, shaking our fists at the sky, alternating between prayers for a reckoning and deliverance, neither of which will ever come.

Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2024, 03:51:16 PM
Anyone thinking D&D is going to collapse is deluding themselves.

The game will see a decline in popularity. The Microsoft executives working for WotC are going to bleed their consumers dry with the VTT. As people drift off, WotC will squeeze harder. Their platform will stabilize on a smaller customer base than the current crop of players, but they'll be providing WotC with higher and more consistent revenue.

The D&D "lifestyle" people will continue. Women will continue to buy their coffee mugs about how they're so totally a bunch of raging tiefling barbarians if they don't get their coffee.

No "real" game company will ever get their hands on D&D again. D&D will also never die an ignominious death. We will all go to our graves watching D&D be twisted and molested by soulless corporate executives to sell to the latest crop of hip young 20-somethings with weird hair and no respect for the hobby. None of us will ever get the satisfaction of seeing D&D finally fail. There will be no retribution for how this company or that executive butchered the game.

Some of us will cling to hope, shaking our fists at the sky, alternating between prayers for a reckoning and deliverance, neither of which will ever come.

We are going through a recession that has been put off from the 2008 recession, do you think Hasbro will survive it?  Do you think President Dementia Hitler will give Hasbro a bailout, Hasbro is going down in flames.

Hasbro's stock has fallen 45% over 5 years and its continuing to fall.  Hasbro sells luxury goods (toys) in a market where people are going to be having problems paying rent, electric bill and food for the family.  Hasbro's toys are based on ESG brands from Disney and no one is buying it.  Hasbro is going all out on a VTT to "save Hasbro" for a game is all over the web on multiple VTT's that does it better than what Hasbro will ever be able to do, while it also alienated ALL of its 3rd party vendors who have created their own 5E clones to avoid OGL entanglement and steal D&D's lunch.  And oh, that VTT Hasbro is selling is to make everyone pay more for D&D during the mother of all recessions - more like Great Depression 2.0 WEF edition when there are other VTT's where they can play the game the way they always have played.

We are looking at another 4E style debacle for 6E launch (2 of 3 fails for 4E are present in 6E):

-New OGL pissed off developers they have peeled off
-New VTT that may or may not be supported but will totally be cool

The only fail not present is that 6E is staying somewhat close to 5E rules but likely with more nerfs to monster lethality.

It is more likely than not that Hasbro will not make it out of the economic downturn.  If that happens, then D&D gets spun off.  The money to save dead companies just isn't there now.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 05:20:48 PM

Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2024, 03:51:16 PM
Anyone thinking D&D is going to collapse is deluding themselves.

The game will see a decline in popularity. The Microsoft executives working for WotC are going to bleed their consumers dry with the VTT. As people drift off, WotC will squeeze harder. Their platform will stabilize on a smaller customer base than the current crop of players, but they'll be providing WotC with higher and more consistent revenue.

The D&D "lifestyle" people will continue. Women will continue to buy their coffee mugs about how they're so totally a bunch of raging tiefling barbarians if they don't get their coffee.

No "real" game company will ever get their hands on D&D again. D&D will also never die an ignominious death. We will all go to our graves watching D&D be twisted and molested by soulless corporate executives to sell to the latest crop of hip young 20-somethings with weird hair and no respect for the hobby. None of us will ever get the satisfaction of seeing D&D finally fail. There will be no retribution for how this company or that executive butchered the game.

Some of us will cling to hope, shaking our fists at the sky, alternating between prayers for a reckoning and deliverance, neither of which will ever come.

We are going through a recession that has been put off from the 2008 recession, do you think Hasbro will survive it?  Do you think President Dementia Hitler will give Hasbro a bailout, Hasbro is going down in flames.

Hasbro's stock has fallen 45% over 5 years and its continuing to fall.  Hasbro sells luxury goods (toys) in a market where people are going to be having problems paying rent, electric bill and food for the family.  Hasbro's toys are based on ESG brands from Disney and no one is buying it.  Hasbro is going all out on a VTT to "save Hasbro" for a game is all over the web on multiple VTT's that does it better than what Hasbro will ever be able to do, while it also alienated ALL of its 3rd party vendors who have created their own 5E clones to avoid OGL entanglement and steal D&D's lunch.  And oh, that VTT Hasbro is selling is to make everyone pay more for D&D during the mother of all recessions - more like Great Depression 2.0 WEF edition when there are other VTT's where they can play the game the way they always have played.

We are looking at another 4E style debacle for 6E launch (2 of 3 fails for 4E are present in 6E):

-New OGL pissed off developers they have peeled off
-New VTT that may or may not be supported but will totally be cool

The only fail not present is that 6E is staying somewhat close to 5E rules but likely with more nerfs to monster lethality.

It is more likely than not that Hasbro will not make it out of the economic downturn.  If that happens, then D&D gets spun off.  The money to save dead companies just isn't there now.

The whole U.S. economy is floating on debt.  Tens of trillions of dollars, of debt.  The RPG economy, is definitely under threat.

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 11, 2024, 07:20:15 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 05:20:48 PM

Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2024, 03:51:16 PM
Anyone thinking D&D is going to collapse is deluding themselves.

The game will see a decline in popularity. The Microsoft executives working for WotC are going to bleed their consumers dry with the VTT. As people drift off, WotC will squeeze harder. Their platform will stabilize on a smaller customer base than the current crop of players, but they'll be providing WotC with higher and more consistent revenue.

The D&D "lifestyle" people will continue. Women will continue to buy their coffee mugs about how they're so totally a bunch of raging tiefling barbarians if they don't get their coffee.

No "real" game company will ever get their hands on D&D again. D&D will also never die an ignominious death. We will all go to our graves watching D&D be twisted and molested by soulless corporate executives to sell to the latest crop of hip young 20-somethings with weird hair and no respect for the hobby. None of us will ever get the satisfaction of seeing D&D finally fail. There will be no retribution for how this company or that executive butchered the game.

Some of us will cling to hope, shaking our fists at the sky, alternating between prayers for a reckoning and deliverance, neither of which will ever come.

We are going through a recession that has been put off from the 2008 recession, do you think Hasbro will survive it?  Do you think President Dementia Hitler will give Hasbro a bailout, Hasbro is going down in flames.

Hasbro's stock has fallen 45% over 5 years and its continuing to fall.  Hasbro sells luxury goods (toys) in a market where people are going to be having problems paying rent, electric bill and food for the family.  Hasbro's toys are based on ESG brands from Disney and no one is buying it.  Hasbro is going all out on a VTT to "save Hasbro" for a game is all over the web on multiple VTT's that does it better than what Hasbro will ever be able to do, while it also alienated ALL of its 3rd party vendors who have created their own 5E clones to avoid OGL entanglement and steal D&D's lunch.  And oh, that VTT Hasbro is selling is to make everyone pay more for D&D during the mother of all recessions - more like Great Depression 2.0 WEF edition when there are other VTT's where they can play the game the way they always have played.

We are looking at another 4E style debacle for 6E launch (2 of 3 fails for 4E are present in 6E):

-New OGL pissed off developers they have peeled off
-New VTT that may or may not be supported but will totally be cool

The only fail not present is that 6E is staying somewhat close to 5E rules but likely with more nerfs to monster lethality.

It is more likely than not that Hasbro will not make it out of the economic downturn.  If that happens, then D&D gets spun off.  The money to save dead companies just isn't there now.

The whole U.S. economy is floating on debt.  Tens of trillions of dollars, of debt.  The RPG economy, is definitely under threat.

What will it be avocado toast of PHB 6.0 - toast, always toast.

The most likely fate of D&D is that Hasbro will farm it and Magic out to Renegade. Who they have a good relationship with. And then kill WotC. WotC has shown to be expendable.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on January 11, 2024, 09:25:33 PM
The most likely fate of D&D is that Hasbro will farm it and Magic out to Renegade. Who they have a good relationship with. And then kill WotC. WotC has shown to be expendable.

WotC is the only division that makes money for them and its in reality MTG only.  D&D made money for this last quarter because they had a top tier RPG company come to them and have to beg to get rights to make BG3.  No one at BG3 sought out Larian Studios, NO ONE.  In fact they were turned down, then Divinity Original Sin 2 came out and THEN WotC approved them.  Looking at the other WotC D&D Games, shit comes to mind, purified shit all of it.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on January 11, 2024, 09:25:33 PM
The most likely fate of D&D is that Hasbro will farm it and Magic out to Renegade. Who they have a good relationship with. And then kill WotC. WotC has shown to be expendable.

Great, farm it out to a company even shittier and wokier than WotC.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 10:08:54 PM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on January 11, 2024, 09:25:33 PM
The most likely fate of D&D is that Hasbro will farm it and Magic out to Renegade. Who they have a good relationship with. And then kill WotC. WotC has shown to be expendable.

Great, farm it out to a company even shittier and wokier than WotC.

More like Sears end.  Sears bought Kmart and sucked itself dry going through multiple bankruptcies and sell Kmarts and Sears properties for cash injections.

Honestly, I think that even bankruptcy and being sold off won't save anything.

The problem with Hasbro is mostly that their Disney toys have been left to rot on store shelves over the last few years. Especially Star Wars toys; no one wants Sequel Trilogy toys. It's hard to see this NOT death spiraling for Hasbro because poor sales mean their planogram space will get cut. Unless Hasbro gets a super-hot property yesterday the toy division will death spiral.

Things are...OK in WotC. Almost all of the revenue is from Magic and Magic has been printing money with the most aggressively anti-consumer practices imaginable. Hiring the Pinkertons, a $1000 pack of proxy cards, being repeatedly caught with AI art when they said they wouldn't use AI art....yeah, WotC is making money, but I guarantee the reason Hasbro told them to lay people off was because everyone knows that the money was yesterday and there will be no free cash flow tomorrow.

D&D is WotC's smaller property. Even that's down because people cancelled their D&D Beyond subscriptions back during the OGL. Baldur's Gate is literally the only thing holding the sky up.

I am of the opinion that when Hasbro actually goes bankrupt, no one will have the cash to actually buy them. Sure they might be valued well, but by the time Hasbro actually gets to bankruptcy, anyone with a brain will realize that the entirety of Hasbro is strip-mined properties which aren't worth anything, anymore, so you have a bunch of properties which are in theory worth something, but in practical business are all dead weight and Magic especially is suffering a severe technical debt problem.

This probably means that corporations who aren't dead will buy slivers of Hasbro because no one will be able to afford to buy the whole of it.

I am hoping that Larian will be the ones who wind up with D&D, because that would at least mean that we would get good Baldur's Gate games and the owners actually like the property. I think the best owner for Magic would probably be Nintendo (Pokemon) but Konami would probably be a good second. I somehow doubt EA will be buying.

Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PM
Honestly, I think that even bankruptcy and being sold off won't save anything.

The problem with Hasbro is mostly that their Disney toys have been left to rot on store shelves over the last few years. Especially Star Wars toys; no one wants Sequel Trilogy toys. It's hard to see this NOT death spiraling for Hasbro because poor sales mean their planogram space will get cut. Unless Hasbro gets a super-hot property yesterday the toy division will death spiral.

Things are...OK in WotC. Almost all of the revenue is from Magic and Magic has been printing money with the most aggressively anti-consumer practices imaginable. Hiring the Pinkertons, a $1000 pack of proxy cards, being repeatedly caught with AI art when they said they wouldn't use AI art....yeah, WotC is making money, but I guarantee the reason Hasbro told them to lay people off was because everyone knows that the money was yesterday and there will be no free cash flow tomorrow.

D&D is WotC's smaller property. Even that's down because people cancelled their D&D Beyond subscriptions back during the OGL. Baldur's Gate is literally the only thing holding the sky up.

I am of the opinion that when Hasbro actually goes bankrupt, no one will have the cash to actually buy them. Sure they might be valued well, but by the time Hasbro actually gets to bankruptcy, anyone with a brain will realize that the entirety of Hasbro is strip-mined properties which aren't worth anything, anymore, so you have a bunch of properties which are in theory worth something, but in practical business are all dead weight and Magic especially is suffering a severe technical debt problem.

This probably means that corporations who aren't dead will buy slivers of Hasbro because no one will be able to afford to buy the whole of it.

I am hoping that Larian will be the ones who wind up with D&D, because that would at least mean that we would get good Baldur's Gate games and the owners actually like the property. I think the best owner for Magic would probably be Nintendo (Pokemon) but Konami would probably be a good second. I somehow doubt EA will be buying.

Never underestimate Andrew Wilson's ability to make a bad decision for EA.  He has the Bioware turd that was killed by ESG.  He remembers the glory days of Bioware and Baldur's Gate and decides to buy the D&D license to make BG and because its cheap the rules for D&D as well with its VTT.  He then allows zombie bioware to write Baldur's Gate 4 where the main plotline is about becoming the trans goddess that kills bhall and gives anal birth to the next Faerun called "Front Hole".  Wilson is incompetent, greedy and he'd find new ways to stripmine D&D that Hasbro had never thought possible.  On the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.