I think part of the problem is the classification of RPG isn't actually useful, its too broad and you actually need to slice it down further. 4the Edition D&D and Ars Magica may both be Role-playing Games, but their not actually that similar.

The problem is, most games are pretty much surviving in a niche that only they are in, so the game name becomes synonymous with the niche they fill, which becomes an issue when WFRP goes from the anti-d&d-euro-game-heavy-stimulation-low-mechanics niche to the descentalike-low-simulation-high-dice-card niche, because we don't actually have an easy way of expressing it.

Which means people end up reduced to shortening 'its not a anti-d&d-euro-game-heavy-stimulation-low-mechanics rpg' to 'its not an rpg'.

Quote from: flyingmice;340455For me, if people still play roles, and it's a game, then it's an RPG.

But the bolded part is the really contentious bit.

Quote from: flyingmice;340460See In Harm's Way: Aces in Spaces, IHW: Aces And Angels, and IHW: Wild Blue. Air combat is pretty much a board game, pushing markers around on an abstract flow chart. No one has ever said they aren't RPGs. I wouldn't worry about that, MM.

-clash

I agree with your definition Clash, in your previous post.

To back up your example, SA! has been called into question at times because it has defined goals, is easily translated to a board and has decidedly board game elements to the structure but I would still call it an RPG since folks are still assuming a role.

If a majority of people who play that game call it an RPG, then it is an RPG.

So for example if the majority of people who play "Host a Murder Mystery" call it a role playing game, then it is a role playing game.  If instead the majority of people playing it call it a party game or a board game, then it is that thing they call it.

Additional complication: basically any RPG can be played as a non-RPG, typically by ditching the roleplaying elements entirely and going pure skirmish boardgame with it – even RPGs that don't have rules for a grid can be bent this way.

I'm sure there are other non-RPG ways to play RPGs but I can't think of them right now.

Quote from: jibbajibba;340466So you an't role play over a Vid link? or to extend it over a Virtual environment or a wiki then its not an RPG?

Quote from: aramis;340494You jumped the shark right there, man.

Most of my groups over the years have played at couches, not around a table.

IMO, no.  Virtual tabletops are a different kind of game.  Not that they're bad or can't be great fun, but part of what sells me on 'RPG' is the social aspect.  Same with pbp or IRC or whatever.  You all need to be in the same room, looking each other in the eye.

I'll give you couches though

In order to determine when a game stops being an RPG, you first have to determine when a game starts being an RPG, Grasshopper. :hmm:

Quote from: Mistwell;340499If a majority of people who play that game call it an RPG, then it is an RPG.

the majority of people call a xylophone a glockenspiel and vice versa, so I am not sure we can trust their judgement. ;o)

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;340496But the bolded part is the really contentious bit.

So? Agree to disagree about it. When you define from center, the border is always undefined. That's a feature, not a bug. Decide what that means in your group, and let other groups define it the way they want. I don't get the need to define for others where these borders are. If they want borders, let them draw their own.

-clash

Quote from: Maddman;340502IMO, no.  Virtual tabletops are a different kind of game.  Not that they're bad or can't be great fun, but part of what sells me on 'RPG' is the social aspect.  Same with pbp or IRC or whatever.  You all need to be in the same room, looking each other in the eye.

I'll give you couches though

We play a lot of games using Klooge Werks and Skype.  The social aspect is absolutely there, by audio and seeing stuff moved on the screen.  I don't know why seeing the person is critical to it being an RPG.  Can't blind people play RPGs?

Quote from: Mistwell;340506We play a lot of games using Klooge Werks and Skype.  The social aspect is absolutely there, by audio and seeing stuff moved on the screen.  I don't know why seeing the person is critical to it being an RPG.  Can't blind people play RPGs?

Peoples coming over to my house, or going to their house, is a big part of the fun to me.  Just saying that, IMO, it just ain't the same.

Is Clue a RPG?

You play characters with names and personalities (suggested by their pictures rather than a character sheet).
You gather clues and try to solve a crime.
It has a map, dice and "figurines".
You even have a bit of interpersonal conflict in that you're in a race with the others to try to solve the murder first.

What about Talisman, which is overtly modeled on "traditional" RPGs, complete with character "sheets" (cards)?

Quote from: Maddman;340507Peoples coming over to my house, or going to their house, is a big part of the fun to me.  Just saying that, IMO, it just ain't the same.

Sure.  But "not the same" isn't the same as "not an RPG", right?

To me, going to a local game store and playing a game cold with strangers face to face is not as "social" (or usually as fun) as playing a game using an online device and the telephone (skype) with my old group of RPG friends who have played together for decades.  So, I can definitely even imagine where the online game is a superior play experience.

Quote from: Werekoala;340508Is Clue a RPG?

You play characters with names and personalities (suggested by their pictures rather than a character sheet).
You gather clues and try to solve a crime.
It has a map, dice and "figurines".
You even have a bit of interpersonal conflict in that you're in a race with the others to try to solve the murder first.

What about Talisman, which is overtly modeled on "traditional" RPGs, complete with character "sheets" (cards)?

Do the majority of people who play it call it an RPG? IF yes, then yes.  IF no, then no.

Quote from: Werekoala;340508Is Clue a RPG?

You play characters with names and personalities (suggested by their pictures rather than a character sheet).
You gather clues and try to solve a crime.
It has a map, dice and "figurines".
You even have a bit of interpersonal conflict in that you're in a race with the others to try to solve the murder first.

What about Talisman, which is overtly modeled on "traditional" RPGs, complete with character "sheets" (cards)?

If you feel these games are RPGs, then they are to you. If not, no. Because of this the world is shaken to the core, millions commit suicide, and the sun goes out.

-clash