Quote from: Will;809307IME, story mechanics work best with proactive, creative players who are in great synch with the GM and each other.

And I suspect a group of local players who are all proactive, creative, and in great sync with one another is vanishingly rare. Which is why I think the storygames movement is driven largely by bitter non-gamers, who long ago abandoned the messy reality of tabletop RPGs in favour of the idealized dreamworld of theory-craft.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;809940Just curious, why did the elements that make Fate easily workable for more traditional elements get removed between Dresden Files and Fate Core?

Because they're different games. Fate Core is a toolkit for groups to build their game from, like GURPS or HERO et al, while Dresden Files or Atomic Robo are worked examples, or games in their own right. One isn't an upgrade to the other.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;809951I hear what you're saying Will, but I'm pretty sure Table Consensus is a HUGE part of Fate Core, since it gets brought up whenever i post for help about it (e.g., I'm having trouble with X). I never had any of these issues when we used Dresden Files.

STOP CARING WHAT PEOPLE ONLINE SAY AND PLAY THE GAME THE WAY YOU WANT.

Seriously, I have issues with certain parts of Fate Core, but its not the "group consensus" part because I've never done that, nor even noticed it being in the rules. Granted, it might be there, but I just wasn't paying attention to it because its not something I want in my games, so I wouldn't use it anyway.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;809951I hear what you're saying Will, but I'm pretty sure Table Consensus is a HUGE part of Fate Core, since it gets brought up whenever i post for help about it (e.g., I'm having trouble with X). I never had any of these issues when we used Dresden Files.

You may have noticed, that Table Consensus haven't been brought up very often by the people on this site?

That is because a certain aspect of most rpgs permeates this forum, and that is the DIY of "If a rule is in the way, change it or ignore it".

I backed the FATE Core KS, ended up selling the book. I *love* FUDGE; I think it's one of the best rpgs ever...but fuck, I hate FATE. Something about it rubs me the wrong way and I cannot figure out what that is.

It's possible PencilBoy99 just has the same inexplicable distaste for the game and is unable to articulate what is causing the problem.  In which case, yeah, play something else, or just ignore whatever you don't like. If the second one proves problematic with your players, why not just use the Dresden Files system instead?

Quote from: Brad;809964I backed the FATE Core KS, ended up selling the book. I *love* FUDGE; I think it's one of the best rpgs ever...but fuck, I hate FATE. Something about it rubs me the wrong way and I cannot figure out what that is.

It's possible PencilBoy99 just has the same inexplicable distaste for the game and is unable to articulate what is causing the problem.  In which case, yeah, play something else, or just ignore whatever you don't like. If the second one proves problematic with your players, why not just use the Dresden Files system instead?

I think the question, more straight, is:
Without going to FATE Core, how do one change the setting and the genre for Dresden Files?

It's mostly that (1) i don't like conflict and am not super assertive and (2) I have players that like to make their characters as effective as possible and play with a focus on making that character successful. Not a great combination for Fate Core as written.

Maybe Mechalus will release a new edition of Strands of Fate.

I feel like I want more data to figure out what's going on, though. "Super-effective" != "I find a flame thrower in a trash can," unless we're talking about magic or superpowers. Same for "I spend a Fate point to declare that this guy is now jelly-bones and thus out of the fight."

In fact, as I look at p. 13, the only place where declarations are mentioned in Core, I only see mention of "details," which implies small facts and small changes to me.

Quote from: Brad;809964I backed the FATE Core KS, ended up selling the book. I *love* FUDGE; I think it's one of the best rpgs ever...but fuck, I hate FATE. Something about it rubs me the wrong way and I cannot figure out what that is.

Have you looked at Fate 2? From what folks have said it might eliminate some of the stuff I dislike about it, though I haven't had time to sit down and read it through.

I've always found Fate really inspiring but frustratingly vague or hard to conceptualize as explained.
It feels like there's something wrong with the presentation or clarification, but it might be me.

Quote from: Will;810018Have you looked at Fate 2? From what folks have said it might eliminate some of the stuff I dislike about it, though I haven't had time to sit down and read it through.

I've always found Fate really inspiring but frustratingly vague or hard to conceptualize as explained.
It feels like there's something wrong with the presentation or clarification, but it might be me.

Well, it's a toolkit game that relies heavily on narrative elements. I had one great game in fate, and one poor one. I think it's definitely a game I see working out best when you have a party of 1 GM and 3 - 4 other GMs taking a break to play.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;809989It's mostly that (1) i don't like conflict and am not super assertive and (2) I have players that like to make their characters as effective as possible and play with a focus on making that character successful. Not a great combination for Fate Core as written.

Maybe Mechalus will release a new edition of Strands of Fate.

Then literally just go play a different game. This is like saying "I hate talking in front of people" and then constantly trying to make your fun time be giving public speeches.

Or just ignore the parts you don't like. Who cares what the rules say.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;809989Maybe Mechalus will release a new edition of Strands of Fate.

Why not stick with first edition Strands of Fate? There was a Strands of Power support book, too.

Quote from: Will;809942It's like going from a sports car to a car frame and a pile of parts.

Fate Core doesn't actually change anything, it's just that it does a much worse job explaining things in the interest of being more broadly inclusive.
(Some editions of Fate Core are really opaque; Fate 2 looks interesting, but I don't know how much better it is yet)


You can play Fate Core _exactly_ like Dresden. It's the same game. Dresden just has a lot of preset bits and coded power widgets right there, while with Core you will have to invent or handwave any needed bits.
(Or use the Tools and whatever supplement, which apparently has a lot of advice on how to design more coded bits)

Will, this is not true.

Fate Core and Fate 3 work differently in many ways.

In Fate 3, Aspects were not always true. They are in Fate Core, which means that it is possible for Aspects to do things that only Stunts used to be able to do, like give access to powers, etc.

This change in and of itself makes the game feel very different in play, and has far reaching consequences. For example, in Fate 3, because Aspects were not always true, you had to have separate rules for things like fire and darkness. But in Fate Core, it being Fire or Dark gives it the ability to do stuff all on its own.

Fate Core is the first full-on Fate game to have no extra rules for environmental things like fire and darkness, etc. Aspects now being always true means it doesn't need them.

Aspects always being true now also means that there is no reason for the Block action that exists in Fate 3. An Aspect alone can now do what a Block action used to be needed for.

I was a major Fate 3 fan, and when Fate Core first came out, I hated it. HATED it, because of how different it was to all the Fates that had come before. Now I have warmed up to it, and have come to prefer it. Now I find that I can't go back to Fate 3 games because they play so differently from Fate Core, which I am now used to.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;809989Maybe Mechalus will release a new edition of Strands of Fate.

What is wrong with the current edition?

Maybe that's where the disconnect happened for me and people like me. I'm glad aspects are always true, but a side effect is now aspects are doing what powers and stunts do in Dresden, so you have the more ambiguous aspects doing heavy lifting. So to handle that, you have a lot more situations requiring table consensus.

Nothing is wrong with the current version of strands , it just isn't really supported anymore . He said he will make a new version.