Quote from: Darrin Kelley;952656The case of someone dropping hot coffee they bought from McDonalds in their own lap? They sued McDonalds and won.

IIRC that nonsense was eventually overturned.
I've sat on juries for civil suits, they often seem to think they're judges at an awards show... I remember one woman saying, "Well, I think she should get something since she brought the case to court!"

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;952645You are not insisting I change my view to match yours.

We're not trying to change your opinion, we're telling you you are factually wrong.

Surely you understand the difference?

Could someone please lock this thread? I think it has outlived its purpose.

Quote from: Simlasa;952666IIRC that nonsense was eventually overturned.

I know that the award was dropped from the ridiculous $3 million that the jury initially awarded - but I thought that she still got a couple hundred thousand?  (Frankly - punitive damage in general is moronic.  It's bypassing the entire 'beyond a reasonable doubt' part of criminal court to punish with only more than 50%.)

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;952656There are plenty of cases where real idiots have sued big companies for things that seemed a lot more ludicrous.

The case of someone dropping hot coffee they bought from McDonalds in their own lap? They sued McDonalds and won.

Yes. That person may look like an idiot to the rest of us. But the cold hard cash took away any reason for them to care about what anyone else would think.

In the McDonalds coffee case the issue at hand was whether or not McDonalds had sold coffee at dangerously hot temperatures without sufficient warnings that it was so. Not that "normally" hot coffee had been hot, but that the coffee had been excessively hot.

It is not actually as ludicrous a case as it has been made out to be.

It also seems a lot less ludicrous than suing an RPG company because they didn't publish a book you wanted.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;952672Could someone please lock this thread? I think it has outlived its purpose.

Guess that's a "No" on having anything at all to back up the homophobic charge then.

Quote from: CRKrueger;952692Guess that's a "No" on having anything at all to back up the homophobic charge then.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;952656There are plenty of cases where real idiots have sued big companies for things that seemed a lot more ludicrous.

are you calling yourself an idiot?

QuoteThe case of someone dropping hot coffee they bought from McDonalds in their own lap? They sued McDonalds and won.

The 79 year old woman who sustained 3rd degree burns over 16% of her body, and had to have skin grafts and pay $10k in medical fees?

QuoteYes. That person may look like an idiot to the rest of us. But the cold hard cash took away any reason for them to care about what anyone else would think.

Its still sounds like your calling yourself an idiot. And then reinforcing that by comparing a small independent game company to a multi-national corporation.

I really, really hope you don't walk away from this thread with the idea that you have any sort of legal case against Wildfire. You don't. Talking to a lawyer would not only be throwing away your money to hear the same rebuttal, it would primarily give him something to tell his friends and they would laugh about for quite some time.

Wildfire is releasing the info you want. And it is going to be backwards compatible. They've stated both of those things, and not only that, you already knew that when you started this thread, because it was brought up in the same thread you started on RPGnet well before this one. So what was the purpose of this thread? Because at this point it seems like it was an incredibly disingenuous attempt to  either drum up ill feelings towards Wildfire or garner pity for your pathetic first of the first world problems.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;952672Could someone please lock this thread? I think it has outlived its purpose.

What exactly was its purpose?

Quote from: Tristram Evans;952705The 79 year old woman who sustained 3rd degree burns over 16% of her body, and had to have skin grafts and pay $10k in medical fees?

And who asked for help, and the manager threw a towel at her.  (My brother had to review the case.  The McDonald's manager was an ass.)

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;952557Or a multi volume fantasy novel series that leaves its readers hanging for decades...

Referring to any specific one?

I am still pissed REH whacked himself. We could have had more Conan!!

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;952590I just only use Kickstarter when the product is 95% done already (and demonstratively so) and/or when they already have a successful track record.

Understandable, but unfortunate.

Kickstarter's bad apples have made it harder for new creators to get start-up funds.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;952639I am sure some people went to go see the Golden Compass in the theater expecting a sequel.

The producer, the director, the cast...

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;952639There are still a few people angry that the Never Ending Story had an ending.

Hey bub, of course we're angry, its right there in the title!!

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;952639I felt a bit annoyed when WoTC released 3.5 after I had invested in all the 3E books for example.

That was a screw job sucker punch.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;952656The case of someone dropping hot coffee they bought from McDonalds in their own lap? They sued McDonalds and won.

I highly suggest reading up on that case.

The media has spun it far from its facts.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;952662If you're so confident, why are you talking to us and not a lawyer?

Because we haven't sent him a bill for our time!

Quote from: Tristram Evans;952705So what was the purpose of this thread?

I learned that Cthulutech 2e is coming!

Quote from: Simlasa;952666IIRC that nonsense was eventually overturned.

It was not.

And for good reason: During discovery for the trial it was discovered that McDonald's had a corporate policy for the temperature at which their coffee had to be kept which (a) could cause third-degree burns in 2-7 seconds; (b) was substantially hotter than the temperature other businesses kept their coffee at; (3) McDonald's knew to be unsafe (based on internal communications) but deliberately chose not to correct; and (4) had resulted in McDonald's settling dozens of previous claims in order to keep them out of court. Then, during the trial, McDonald's quality control manager, Christopher Appleton, testified that the company's own research showed the coffee would burn the mouth and throat if consumed when served (i.e., it was dangerous even if used exactly as intended. He then went on to testify that the number of injuries was not sufficient to change corporate policy (which the internal communications indicated was because they had calculated the cost of settling these cases was cheap enough).

So you basically had a corporation that had made the decision that settling out of court was cheaper than fixing a major liability issue. But then, for some nonsensical reason, decided to not settle this case and take it to court instead. The idiot in this case was not the woman who had massive burns on her body and just wanted her medical bills paid: It was the Machiavellian corporation whose legal department apparently had an aneurysm.

Quote from: Nexus;952716What exactly was its purpose?

It's purpose was to make us all feel good that we hadn't chucked our $400 behind a fatally incomplete game that is now going to a new edition with new rules, forcing us to rebuy all the book if we want to keep playing.  

Oh, wait, is that D&D, or CoC, or WHFRP, or Deadlands, or Tekumel, or ... ?

Quote from: DavetheLost;952826It's purpose was to make us all feel good that we hadn't chucked our $400 behind a fatally incomplete game that is now going to a new edition with new rules, forcing us to rebuy all the book if we want to keep playing.  

Oh, wait, is that D&D, or CoC, or WHFRP, or Deadlands, or Tekumel, or ... ?

D&Ds never had that problem though. Core games complete and they tended to get the basics out before the next and oft cram in a bunch of stuff just because. Least pre 3e and Im pretty sure 3 e was complete too.

The McDonald's hot coffee case is simply not a good case for justification one's opinions regarding frivolous lawsuit. It was a legitimate lawsuit only notable because the jury decided to throw on a very large punitive amount (that was immediately reduced) to the large corporation found to be in the wrong. It would be a genuine non-issue if it hadn't happened right in the first big expansion of 24 hour cable news.

Since it's fairly obvious that no new information is forthcoming, the thread clearly didn't have a solid purpose to begin with, and most of the arguments have been made, I propose a new question -- given that there are (at least one) individuals out there like the OP who 1) like the CT game world, and the 1st edition rules, and 2) have been put off of Wildfire by the delay in this 1st edition product and its eventual cancellation, and the eventual rolling of the fluff information from the proposed product into the 2nd edition book, is something Wildfire could have done better to have turned this type of individual into a glad customer, instead of vocal detractor? They say 1 negative review is worth 10 positive, so something like this could be in the company's interest to make an effort towards. Not that I suspect it's relevant in this specific case. OP's position seems quite solidified. But for other companies out there, is there a lesson to take away from this? Basically I'm asking if there's anything positive we can salvage from this dumpster fire?