Quote from: Christmas ApeSure, make me wish my players could even consider playing an FR game. :mad:

(One once described it as the "damp cardboard of fantasy settings; a lifeless, tasteless, undifferentiated beige mess that refuses to hold together when pressed".)

Haw! I'm stealing that one. Give him props from me.

I don't care for the mental imagery of the "heroes" in D&D (or any other FRPG) having just defeated a few orcs, getting to work looting the bodies.  Scrabbling about looking through coin pouches, stripping clothes and armour off the corpses...

the 'magic deer' for me is the inclusion of Eastern/Asian cultures into Fantasy Settings...not cause i'm some kind of racist (far from it) but seriously COME ON.  

this has to be simply due to the number of nerds who think Ninja are cool.
seriously, all-asian (i.e; Bushido) settings are sweet, but STOP TRYING TO DO SOME P.C. MISHMASH OF CULTURES IN GODDAMN ROLE-PLAYING GAMES.  THANK YOU.

Quote from: StuartI don't care for the mental imagery of the "heroes" in D&D (or any other FRPG) having just defeated a few orcs, getting to work looting the bodies.  Scrabbling about looking through coin pouches, stripping clothes and armour off the corpses...

I sometimes enjoy it when the PCs think of themselves as heroic heroes, but they're really brigands killing esoteric green-skinned goons for pocket change.  I like D&D, but I also don't mind subverting it like that.  Personally, I enjoy the spice it adds.

QuoteSTOP TRYING TO DO SOME P.C. MISHMASH OF CULTURES IN GODDAMN ROLE-PLAYING GAMES. THANK YOU.

I really liked the Saracen Nasir in the 1980s Robin of Sherwood TV show, and Mani the Native American in Brotherhood of the Wolf.

Quote from: kregmosierSTOP TRYING TO DO SOME P.C. MISHMASH OF CULTURES IN GODDAMN ROLE-PLAYING GAMES.  THANK YOU.

No.

Stuart is right.  Karate-wielding Iroquois rock harder than anything the 18th century has a right to.  Therefore let RPGs continue to mash together cultures into an indistinguishable stew, which I will then load onto my plate and consume with gusto.

QuoteI sometimes enjoy it when the PCs think of themselves as heroic heroes, but they're really brigands killing esoteric green-skinned goons for pocket change. I like D&D, but I also don't mind subverting it like that. Personally, I enjoy the spice it adds.

I like D&D -- just not that part.

Usually it's something like:

DM: "Ok, what are you doing?"
Players: "We search the bodies."
DM: "You find 32 sp, a pair of high quality boots, a suit of finely wrought chainmail, and a gold earing."
Players: "Okay, I take the sp and the earing, Bob takes the boots, and Joe takes the armour."

Not much reflecting on fact they just pulled a bloodied suit of chainmail off a fresh corpse, went through his pockets, pulled off his boots and even pulled off his earing!

I guess it just breaks the suspension of disbelief for me.  Maybe a really grim/gritty thief doing that... but it's pretty standard operating procedure for all D&D players.

Can you imagine a scene like that in a Fantasy genre movie? The only thing I've seen that comes close was in Henry V... and it didn't end too well for that guy.

Quote from: StuartI don't care for the mental imagery of the "heroes" in D&D (or any other FRPG) having just defeated a few orcs, getting to work looting the bodies.  Scrabbling about looking through coin pouches, stripping clothes and armour off the corpses...

Have you read The Iliad? Or Ilium

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ilium-Gollancz-S-F-Dan-Simmons/dp/0575075600/sr=8-2/qid=1164651717/ref=pd_ka_2/203-1922632-7966314?ie=UTF8&s=books

which has most of it in?

Cause in those whenever Achilles or Heck (the ur-heros of western literature) kill a Greek Hero the first thing they do is drag off the corpse so they can strip it of it's armour. Theres an extended fight scene which is basically a bundle over who gets to strip a corpse.

And it does a pretty good job of making it cool as well.

QuoteOnce I adapted to the prose, and got my head around the background material I was intrigued, finding the story to be rather less romantic or admirable than I expected - what we have is essentially a big gang fight between, putting it crudely, pirates/warlords with poor military technology and, apparently, bugger all tactical sense. Things generally consist of two shifting mobs hurling insults, with one hard man out front daring someone to take him on, before running back to his mates when things get hairy. In a tale where a woman can be second prize to metal work, the whole war seems less to do with the love of a woman than personal grudges and the potential for booty. Every kill is followed by gleeful looting of the armour, and all major plot events are occasioned either by someone huffing that they're not getting their fair share, or the gods tricking someone.

This is true, but its also in part what makes it compelling - to an extent the story is so familiar from office politics and other gatherings of people that it still hits a note after three thosand years.

The ancient Greeks has a single word for 'I loot the corpse'.  Skuleo, IIRC.  My main man Pat likes to drop that one on me every once in a while.

Quote from: fonkaygarryNo.

Stuart is right.  Karate-wielding Iroquois rock harder than anything the 18th century has a right to.  Therefore let RPGs continue to mash together cultures into an indistinguishable stew, which I will then load onto my plate and consume with gusto.

as long as it's not billed as "historical" or "accurate", no problem.
however, being that this whole "what is your magic deer?" isn't really up for debate and is based on my opinion of what MY deer is, it stands.  i still hate that shit.

Speaking of historical: Vikings. Why? I know they're cool, but when the rest of the land is about to enter the renaissance, why would some people still speed around in longboats? It's not like the history of Scandinavia _ended_ with monastery raiding.

Some things that particularly annoy me in-setting:

1) Superior Elves.  Warhammer FRP elves?  HATE.  'Yes, the elves are just superior to you, they get to use all the Winds of Magic and you don't, they can obliterate you at will, and every single book seems to have something where the elven version is just BETTER THAN YOU!'  Same in Shadowrun with the Immortal Elves.  Oddly enough, I don't mind Dragaerans, because in spite of supposed advantages, their culture, society, and viewpoints make it far more complicated.

2) DM Fiat foes.  Anytime a setting says 'The PCs cannot do anything to defeat X, Y, or Z' I throw that aspect of the setting out.  Yes, PCs can face down Harlequin somehow (Shadowrun), they can defeat the evil god in Midnight, and so on.

For me, it's the Red Wizards of Thay.  In 3e they turned the villianous, slave-hoarding, undead army raising masters of the east into magical trinket merchants.  More than making an enemy less fearsome, it totally destroyed the image of one of my favorite villians.  IMC, if a Red Wizard was spotted in the city limits the guards freaked out and put out a call for all able-bodies mercenaries.  Now, these guys own shops!  Blech.

Quote from: MaddmanFor me, it's the Red Wizards of Thay.  In 3e they turned the villianous, slave-hoarding, undead army raising masters of the east into magical trinket merchants.  More than making an enemy less fearsome, it totally destroyed the image of one of my favorite villians.  IMC, if a Red Wizard was spotted in the city limits the guards freaked out and put out a call for all able-bodies mercenaries.  Now, these guys own shops!  Blech.

Perhaps it's a critique of capitalism?

Fafrhd
Grey Mouser
Bazaar of the Bizarre

'nuff said