We do, in fact, have the necessary permits and licenses to sell food, and we're planning on it. What do you guys think about having music playing softly in the background? Not loudly enough to interrupt, and it wouldn't be audible from the RPG tables, but just ambience?

Quote from: Benoist;718603I've never run into belligerent freaks or catpissman or whatnot in a game store. I guess I'm just lucky? A few overly passionate guys or some players of this or that game that keep to themselves looking suspiciously at anyone not part of the clique (like Magic players exchanging cards like it's crack), sure, I've seen that, could do without it, though I just ignore people like this.

I think a lot more people post "OMG let me tell you about the GROSS CAT PISS MAN who's ALWAYS there!!!" anecdotes than post "No, I've never run into one" anecdotes.

Heck, I've been stumbling into FLGSs, on and off, for pushing 40 years now.  Of course I've run into characters ... the ones rabidly proselytizing for their system, the ones who'd inform strangers how cool and powerful their favorite characters were, the ones who'd clumsily ogle anything female.  In my experience, there wasn't a higher percentage of idiots or jerks than in any other walk of life.

And, when all is said and done, I can't forget the bunch of strangers in the summer of 1980 who were shopping at a FLGS at the same time I was.  We left around the same time, headed for the same subway stop, and one hailed me to ask me about the product I'd bought.  They wound up inviting me to hang at Boston Common with them.  By Labor Day, the lady who'd invited me and I were in a relationship, and she convinced me to transfer out to UMass, where I met my first wife, found the place I'd eventually live, ultimately met my current wife, and there you have it.

I rather think that the people you meet in a FLGS balance out.

Quote from: XenocideSoldier;718688What do you guys think about having music playing softly in the background? Not loudly enough to interrupt, and it wouldn't be audible from the RPG tables, but just ambience?

I think that would be great with a caveat that the background music must match the genre of the RPG that is dominantly being played. Otherwise you could have the Star Wars soundtrack playing while the Players and Keeper are plumbing the depths of Cthulhu's Lair.

I will add this anecdote. In an AD&D2 game at the FLGS my character kept slipping on the last of four Dex checks to make it up an iced over stream bed and gradual waterfall - there was no damage with a fail, sliding down the ice, I would just have to start the process over again at the bottom. The maddenning part was that one of the MtG Players had his boombox in there and was playing "Cuban Pete" just loud enough to hear for the whole thing....

Xenocide, if you are really going to burn the family inheritance, what's your plan for pre-launch and post-launch marketing? Have you looked into how you will achieve SEO that targets locals? Or is this a Field of Dreams, build it and they will come scenario?

Quote from: Benoist;718603I've never run into belligerent freaks or catpissman or whatnot in a game store.

I've run into more freaks in non-game stores than game stores. The whole catpissman thing is mostly a forum bogeyman.

Quote from: mcbobbo;718629But it's still a dream of mine...  A FLGS/Geek Pub mashup, if you will.

Hot food in a gamestore = grease stains on unsold merchandise AND you get 1D6 Roaches on your own personal Wandering Monsters table.  Don't forget that 11 year old kid who spills his Coke on the $60 Hardcover then walks out...even with his mom there. They're never gonna pay for it.

I can see a Geek Pub working in the UK where pub culture is a central part of their community. In the US? Not so sure.

You would need the right combination of factors to make it work out. A huge geek population, so a tech hub like Silicon Valley, Portland, Raliegh or Austin maybe. But then you'd need to convince locals to make your place their prime social hangout. Challenging, but possible.

Quote from: XenocideSoldier;718688What do you guys think about having music playing softly in the background? Not loudly enough to interrupt, and it wouldn't be audible from the RPG tables, but just ambience?

The problem is sound travels and its doubtful a game store will be large enough to overcome that.

My favorite burger joint is Grill'em All. It's a heavy metal themed eatery and they crank the metal all day all night and its awesome. It certainly adds to the ambiance.  http://grillemalltruck.com/

If it was my store, I would play music in the retail/food area and accept it bleeding into the game play area - epic movie and video game soundtracks on rotation along with some Mandatory Metallica.

Quote from: XenocideSoldier;718688We do, in fact, have the necessary permits and licenses to sell food, and we're planning on it. What do you guys think about having music playing softly in the background? Not loudly enough to interrupt, and it wouldn't be audible from the RPG tables, but just ambience?

It's good for ambience - but you have to be careful.

Pop music can be a disruption if there are games happening in the store.

Instrumental music - classical, baroque, film scores, etc. are better, but you have to very them or else your staff will go insane from the repetition.

Quote from: Spinachcat;718704My favorite burger joint is Grill'em All. It's a heavy metal themed eatery and they crank the metal all day all night and its awesome. It certainly adds to the ambiance.  http://grillemalltruck.com/

If it was my store, I would play music in the retail/food area and accept it bleeding into the game play area - epic movie and video game soundtracks on rotation along with some Mandatory Metallica.

Are you in LA?

Quote from: Spinachcat;718704I can see a Geek Pub working in the UK where pub culture is a central part of their community. In the US? Not so sure.

Green's Tavern in Knoxville, TN has been going strong for the past three years without a hitch and it is a nerd/geek pub.

I'm picturing almost a yin-yang setup.  On one end are televisions, tight cozy tables/booths, and beer.  As far from that as is possible from that are curmudgeonly wargamers carefully positioning their freshly painted figures on an awesome felt table (or similar).  Yet it isn't so far across that the management can't at least see some of what's going on in both places from the counter in the middle.

One big problem is the mixing of kids and beer.  In a hobbyshop it seems sure to bring on the pitchforks.  But for whatever reason it's totally legit at a sports bar like BWW.  So that's an issue.  Maybe nix the beer.  But I have to think you'd make a killing on flagons and mead.  Plus wine makes a lot of gamers relax enough to enjoy their game of choice.  It's a conundrum.

Maybe a wristband policy and a strict limit? Like you get a band by showing ID and then can order.  Each order is a punch in the band.  Two/Three punches in the band and it comes off.  ANYONE handling alcohol without a wristband is ejected, no questions asked.

The other problem I see is an environment where only the middle folk are truly comfortable.  Assuming there are geeks that fear bars and bar patrons that fear geeks, you're left with the middle.

A lot depends on the state's liquor laws. In TN, it is absolutely illegal to allow a minor (under 21) into a bar - a bar owner can even get busted if you are being nice and let a kid in just to use the bathroom.

Game Empire in Pasadena, California is pretty close to my dream.  I just wish it were closer.  

I would suggest looking at pictures of their store.  Though I remember one thing they said that they thought was key, that's not in pictures.  And that is they have a dedicated women's room, in addition to a men's room, and the bathrooms are always clean.  In fact, the whole store is always clean and not cluttered, it has wide aisles, and it's employees are never so engaged in conversation with their gamer friends that they fail to greet a customer walking in the door and ask at least once or twice if they could use some assistance finding something.

Nothing turns me off to a game store more than the uninviting dark narrow aisles cluttered with stuff, and employees who won't even look up from their conversation to even notice you're in the store.  Which sadly describes most game stores I've been to for the last 5 years, other than Game Empire.

Quote from: Spinachcat;717258I am a big fan of Game Empire because they are a hub of the local gaming community because they have events every day, almost all backed up by active Meetup Groups. Check out their calendar for the month.

http://toucharcade.com/2013/08/06/new-dungeons-dragons-game-will-let-you-change-the-forgotten-realms/

And I posted what I posted before I had read what Spinachcat said.  So, if both of us came to the same conclusion about Game Empire, it's probably a sign they're doing something right.

Quote from: jeff37923;718767A lot depends on the state's liquor laws. In TN, it is absolutely illegal to allow a minor (under 21) into a bar - a bar owner can even get busted if you are being nice and let a kid in just to use the bathroom.

There's a Buffalo Wild Wings in Memphis, so how does that work? No kids allowed?  Or is a sports bar not "a bar" but a restaurant?

Quote from: mcbobbo;718780There's a Buffalo Wild Wings in Memphis, so how does that work? No kids allowed?  Or is a sports bar not "a bar" but a restaurant?

Memphis is about 300 or so miles away from me, so I do not know. Liquor laws may be different from county to county in Tennessee. Knox county has liqour stores and restaurants/bars may sell liquor by the drink. However, Sevier County right next to us was a dry county for decades until recently, even though you could drive 10 minutes to Gatlinburg and buy liquor from almost any streetcorner where there is a store. It is all determined locally and thus is different from location to location.

I'm pretty sure though that if a Buffalo Wild Wings served underage, that they would be fined and have their liquor license revoked. Restaurants are licensed differently than bars and have different constraints to owrk under, when our local Texas Roadhouse sold to underage they got an $8000 fine, the bartender and manager got fired, and the restaurant lost their liquor license for six months.

Quote from: Gizmoduck5000;718727Are you in LA?

Hell yeah! I run Old School & 4e at the RPG meetup at Game Empire most months. I occasionally playtest stuff I write too.

Quote from: jeff37923;718752Green's Tavern in Knoxville, TN has been going strong for the past three years without a hitch and it is a nerd/geek pub.

I looked on Yelp and its got good reviews, but how is it a geek pub? Do they have RPG and/or boardgame meetups and gaming area? Do you run stuff there?

Quote from: mcbobbo;718763One big problem is the mixing of kids and beer.

Liquor laws are the issue. It's an odd divide between "restaurant" and "bar" in concern to where you can/can't have under-21s.

Quote from: mcbobbo;718763The other problem I see is an environment where only the middle folk are truly comfortable.

Perhaps that's enough of a customer base. My concern is a business without a clear identity. Is this a bar where people game? Is it a game store where people drink?

And it multiplies problems. Running a bar/restaurant X running a game store with all the problems of both businesses.

Marketing also becomes a bitch. Instead of getting "bar patrons" or getting "game store patrons", you now get "bar patrons who are gamers" which is certainly a subset of both groups.

But in a town where you have lots of bars and/or coffee houses, I do believe specializing can be beneficial...with the right marketing.

Quote from: Mistwell;718771and it's employees are never so engaged in conversation with their gamer friends that they fail to greet a customer walking in the door and ask at least once or twice if they could use some assistance finding something.

I suspect Game Empire pays their employees a higher wage then other game stores and comic stores. Chuck is a great manager, but I suspect he backs up his hiring and managing with ample incentive to draw in a brighter, more professional worker than his competition.

Much like In & Out vs. the mega-corp burger hells.

Quote from: Spinachcat;718704Hot food in a gamestore = grease stains on unsold merchandise AND you get 1D6 Roaches on your own personal Wandering Monsters table.  Don't forget that 11 year old kid who spills his Coke on the $60 Hardcover then walks out...even with his mom there. They're never gonna pay for it.

I can see a Geek Pub working in the UK where pub culture is a central part of their community. In the US? Not so sure.

You would need the right combination of factors to make it work out. A huge geek population, so a tech hub like Silicon Valley, Portland, Raliegh or Austin maybe. But then you'd need to convince locals to make your place their prime social hangout. Challenging, but possible.

Fantasy Flight just updated their event center here in Minneapolis/St. Paul to include a full kitchen and beer/wine bar. So it is possible to mix beer and gaming! Of course, I assume most would not consider them an FLGS.